Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2020-09-30 | 2020-10-02 →
11:43 asciilifeform !w poll
11:43 watchglass Polling 16 nodes...
11:43 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.069s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.086s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:43 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:43 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.121s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.237s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.285s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391662 (Operator: jurov)
11:43 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.358s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.274s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650565
11:43 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.244s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
11:43 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.168s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=618273 (Operator: whaack)
11:43 asciilifeform $vwap
11:43 BusyBot The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 10884.88 USD
11:44 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
11:44 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
11:44 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
~ 3 hours 14 minutes ~
14:58 gregorynyssa is there a plan to re-write TRB from scratch using some language other than C++?
15:00 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
15:00 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: but this does not yet add up to 'rewrite trb'.
15:10 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: the principal difficulty in 'rewrite trb', historically, is the massive bag of bugs an' warts, where omitting any particular item risks an exploitable (quiet 'fork') break of compatibility in unspecified future
15:11 gregorynyssa I knew that the semantics of PRB were not airtight, but what you are describing is worse than I had imagined.
15:12 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: indeed, most n00bs to the subj are quite astonished when faced w/ the depth of the hell.
~ 3 hours 11 minutes ~
18:23 gregorynyssa when I have the time, I would like to create a sort of catalog of all of those glitches.
18:24 gregorynyssa that way, we can finally reduce Bitcoin to an instrumentable system rather than a "user experience."
18:24 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: not all known, sadly.
18:25 asciilifeform ( behavioural spaces of e.g. bdb, openssl, are ~infinite pits of ??? )
18:25 gregorynyssa true, but to some extent, the same argument could be applied toward running Bitcoin on
18:26 gregorynyssa different archs. such as x86 vs. x64 vs. ARM.
18:26 asciilifeform to this day afaik not much bitcoinism happening outside of x64.
18:27 gregorynyssa "to this day afaik not much bitcoinism happening outside of x64." then that basically seals the problem.
18:28 gregorynyssa I respect Ethereum for having a spec.. have you tried using that platform?
18:28 gregorynyssa or is the "there can only be one chain" argument sufficient to deter you?
18:28 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: eth is usg's Official 'replacement' for bitcoin. see logs.
18:28 gregorynyssa will read. thanks.
18:29 asciilifeform subj was beaten to death elaborately in '16-18, in #t.
18:29 gregorynyssa I have yet to comprehensively examine #trilema.
18:30 asciilifeform upstack : a proper adaization of trb would turn bitcoin from 'piece of shit written by some anon and variously barnacled on since' into actual specced item. the problem is that there is massive risk (of exploitable 'silent fork' behaviour) , substantial effort req'd, and reward -- is zero.
18:30 asciilifeform so 'don't hold breath'
18:31 gregorynyssa it looks like there is no way out of this mess. oh man..
18:31 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: it's exactly same bind as for other opensores products.
18:32 asciilifeform see also.
18:37 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: no one is going to ever massively profit from writing a better (for any sense of word) btc client. imho the reason for this is quite obvious, does not need elaborate explanation.
~ 22 minutes ~
19:00 gregorynyssa I am not looking to profit from the endeavor by itself.
19:01 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: imho there aint anyffin wrong w/ trying ( jfw, for instance, went off to sell trb. i have nfi, however, what became of this.. ) but be aware of the history of folx trying to profit from 'better compiler' and similar .
19:01 gregorynyssa the greater tragedy is that new operating systems in the future won't be able to support Bitcoin.
19:02 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: why exactly not ?
19:02 asciilifeform e.g. nintendo's os already 'does not support bitcoin'. in what sense is this interesting ?
19:03 asciilifeform ~any~ os for which can be said 'does not support xyz..' is variant of nintendo.
19:07 gregorynyssa since Bitcoin is implementation-defined, it is tied to C++, "bdb," and so forth.
19:08 gregorynyssa so a future version of Terry Davis (RIP) or Chuck Moore wouldn't be able to create
19:08 gregorynyssa his own system which plugs into Bitcoin's network.
19:08 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
19:08 asciilifeform not to mention, absolutely nuffin stops anyone from writing own btc client. at own risk. simply no one gives a shit.
19:10 asciilifeform asciilifeform expects, if lives another 5-10y, to publish ada client. will use for own needs, does not expect anyone else to, and specifically uninterested in potential whines re 'what if breaks compat.!1111'
19:11 asciilifeform it would not even astonish me to discover that folx have already written, simply did not bother to publish, such a thing.
19:12 asciilifeform there is very little reward for publishing softs.
19:12 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022692 << emulation diminishes the possibility of instrumentation, so it is not my preferred approach.
19:12 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-01 19:08:15 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
19:13 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: now i'm thoroughly confused. diminishes ?!
19:13 asciilifeform if anyffin -- is the only truly effective means of instrumentation .
19:14 gregorynyssa I think I am using the term "instrumentation" differently
19:14 asciilifeform a good % of what asciilifeform knows re mips arch., gcc, and linux kernel -- in fact learned in the process of writing 'm' .
19:14 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022694 << I am please to hear that you will attempt this. I would like to try as well.
19:14 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-01 19:10:00 asciilifeform: asciilifeform expects, if lives another 5-10y, to publish ada client. will use for own needs, does not expect anyone else to, and specifically uninterested in potential whines re 'what if breaks compat.!1111'
19:14 gregorynyssa * pleased to hear
19:16 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: i expect at least handful of folx not only tried, but succeeded. simply, found no incentive to publish .
19:19 asciilifeform there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about .
19:29 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: not only 'attempt', but , as noted earlier, most of the req'd pieces already on asciilifeform's desk. simply, haven't currently any reason to hurry to glue'em further.
19:29 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
19:29 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022707 << I want to note that this is similar to the allegation made in the past that many companies are using elaborate Common Lisp systems in secret -- not denying this is true.
19:29 snsabot Logged on 2020-10-01 19:19:53 asciilifeform: there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about .
19:30 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: several such co.'s were revealed (e.g. 'orbitz') at one time or another
19:30 asciilifeform usually the 'unveil' happens when the firm is sold and 'delisped'.
19:31 asciilifeform see also .
19:31 gregorynyssa are Orbitz and ITA the same company?
19:31 gregorynyssa the ITA example is well known, yes.
19:32 asciilifeform same co., iirc 'orbitz' was the trademark for the product itself.
19:34 asciilifeform gregorynyssa: imho it is not even deliberate (as in commercial works) secrecy that explains 'you will not see quality softs'. simply the fact that garbage is what becomes popular by attracting 'fixers'.
19:34 snsabot Logged on 2020-09-25 13:51:31 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: interestingly, not only money. piles o'shit attract 'fixers'. working systems -- not so much.
← 2020-09-30 | 2020-10-02 →