Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-08-19 | 2020-08-21 → ↓
00:16 mats great new pic on phfs log
00:23 trinque mats: link?
00:24 thimbronion I think this is it: http://btcbase.org/log/
~ 10 hours 55 minutes ~
11:20 asciilifeform mats: lulzy
11:22 asciilifeform !w poll
11:22 watchglass Polling 12 nodes...
11:22 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.085s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:22 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:22 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.166s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.212s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.229s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.377s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644563
11:22 watchglass 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.396s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.587s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=644567
11:22 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
~ 1 hours 59 minutes ~
13:21 Aerthean Hi Asciilifeform, I've been a reader of the logs and your website for several years.
13:25 Aerthean I grabbed a copy of interlisp based on what Amberglint mentioned yesterday, and I found the lfg software for it (dunno if this is the OS soft you're looking for) in an archive of Xerox PARC's ftp server from 2014. https://archive.org/details/2014.01.ftp.parc.xerox.com
13:26 Aerthean For the lfg.sysout in particular it's located at https://web.archive.org/web/20170706013703/ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/lfg/lfg.sysout
↖
13:27 Aerthean There's a decent chance you already came across this, but figured I would mention it on the chance you hadn't.
13:28 Aerthean Thanks for the work you've done on FFA and your other writings.
~ 27 minutes ~
13:56 asciilifeform neato. and yer welcome.
13:56 * asciilifeform will look when there's time
14:02 asciilifeform welcome to #a btw, Aerthean. plz consider sitting long enuff to have conversation...
14:05 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019823 << funnily enuff, seems that i had it on my hdd, dated july 2010...
14:05 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 13:26:11 Aerthean: For the lfg.sysout in particular it's located at https://web.archive.org/web/20170706013703/ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/lfg/lfg.sysout
14:05 asciilifeform ... bitwise identical to linked item.
14:06 asciilifeform must've dug it up when last played w/ 'medley'.
~ 47 minutes ~
14:53 asciilifeform !!key Aerthean
14:53 deedbot Not registered.
14:54 asciilifeform Aerthean: consider getting in WoT.
~ 2 hours 20 minutes ~
17:15 Aerthean Sorry, I wasn't sure about the etiquette of leaving a connection open from somewhere or just following up on responses that appeared in the logs
17:25 Aerthean Regarding registering a key with the WoT, does a process exist for updating said key post registration (aside from asking trinque? nicely)
↖
17:36 asciilifeform Aerthean: it's done by asking trinque nicely (and obv. by signing said req w/ the key being replaced, as well as the successor key)
17:37 asciilifeform Aerthean: there is deliberately no automatic mechanism
17:39 asciilifeform Aerthean: re the other q -- it makes 0 diff to me whether folx sit logged in 24/7, or only come to answer logs. the 1 historic annoyance is noobs who think they can 'get sense of what chan is about' by idling for a day. but in your case this obv. not the case.
17:41 Aerthean Thanks, I thought that was the case, but better to verify. I could generate a key on my current computer, but I may be better off delaying until I bring something up more stripped down. Even though I've following the logs, and know how to act better security-wise, still often act lazy.
17:41 asciilifeform Aerthean: the traditional state of the art is to uncrate an ancient laptop and do all pgp ops (incl. generation) there.
17:42 Aerthean I bought one of the PCEngines APU1 for that purpose
17:42 asciilifeform the key never leaves the box. i/o via serial port, or, if lazy, removable drives.
17:43 asciilifeform apu1 will work, tho it makes entering passphrase painful (no vga)
17:44 Aerthean I've also got a few old laptops floating around, I think at least one of them pre-dates the Management Engine
17:45 Aerthean Either way, I'll get something set up, and get a key registered.
17:45 asciilifeform btw asciilifeform's x64 gentoo worx on apu1 w/ only 1 modification ( need s0:12345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -L 115200 ttyS0 vt100 in /etc/inittab )
17:47 Aerthean Thanks, it's worth setting that up on the apu1 whether I use it for keys or not
17:47 asciilifeform Aerthean: a++. when you register, can get ratings, and then do biz , meaningfully sign code , and many other things.
17:50 asciilifeform Aerthean: if you use this gentoo, you will probably also want to use my packages repo . in /etc/portage/make.conf , GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://dulap.xyz/gentoo/" .
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
17:50 asciilifeform ( this is supposing you want to use 'portage' at all )
17:51 asciilifeform it aint in the installer by default, i baked the latter before had the mirror.
17:53 Aerthean I recall you had a strong warning regarding emerging and syncing. Given the rather large changes gcc that you've mentioned ( removing of static linking, etc )
17:57 asciilifeform Aerthean: actually this gentoo still based on traditional glibc. static linking in it still has to be done by building a separate gcc + toolchain, or using ave1's gnat , or similar.
17:57 asciilifeform Aerthean: however my gentoo is built on gcc 4.9, and carefully cleansed of systemdism. as well as being 'update-proof'.
17:58 asciilifeform Aerthean: trinque is working on a purely musl-based linux & toolchain.
17:59 asciilifeform ( incidentally -- trinque , shinohai , et al -- ave1's www seems to be dead nao.. )
↖ ↖ ↖
17:59 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere ave1
17:59 snsabot ave1 last seen in #ossasepia on 2020-04-06 04:23:33: So could you try to build with single worker?
18:00 asciilifeform RIP.
18:02 Aerthean Ah, yeah I followed along with some of the musl work, I put some effort into building a musl-based FreeRTOS system for a Xilinx Zynq
18:03 asciilifeform Aerthean: building a musl-based gcc toolchain is not so hard; the harder thing is getting 100% of proggies to actually build in it (for some, trivial, for others -- e.g. emacs -- yet-unsolved afaik , some of'em use glibcisms specifically )
18:03 Aerthean Eventually I gave up as I had other work to do, and didn't have the motivation to find and tear out all the Xilinx'isms that prevented it from building
18:04 asciilifeform xilinx is epic ball of yarn, entirely comparable to microshit's products
18:04 Aerthean Yeah, I discovered that, just a bunch of miscellaneous differences
18:04 Aerthean Yes, I use their software for work
18:05 Aerthean I think they have a separate copy of their Place and Route software (or however one would describe it), for every single FPGA instance
18:05 asciilifeform i also used , for a hardware product , as well as earlier for various experiments.
18:05 asciilifeform Aerthean: i personally have at least 3 copies of their toolchain, and pretty sure that support for all the chips i ever used aint even in their current release..
18:06 Aerthean With Vivado they pulled out support for most of their older chips
18:06 Aerthean Spartan 6's in particular
18:06 asciilifeform the 9572 i think vanished almost decade ago from the official package
18:06 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019858 <<< Archive link to his blog for teh logz https://archive.is/LGE6R
↖
18:06 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 17:59:10 asciilifeform: ( incidentally -- trinque , shinohai , et al -- ave1's www seems to be dead nao.. )
18:06 asciilifeform ty shinohai
18:08 Aerthean For an updated FG, I do a fair amount of work using LYSO + SiPMs for various things
18:09 asciilifeform Aerthean: xilinx's biz model requires the periodic breaking of compat.
↖
18:09 Aerthean You've mentioned using LYSO in the past in the logs, and I've been curious (in general) what approach you planned on taking
18:10 asciilifeform Aerthean: built prototype where simply debias a 250MHz counter b/w events. but not satisfied with my amplifier (requires rather costly PIN diode, and very good shielding) , project currently backburnered
18:11 asciilifeform Aerthean: what also want, ideally, is a 100% analogue filter to count ~only~ the L decay events (i.e. the exact opposite of what folx who use LYSO scintillators normally do.)
↖
18:12 Aerthean Ah, yeah the decay events tend to get in the way, especially if you're using Na22
18:12 asciilifeform Aerthean: idea is, the rng should not depend on external events at all.
18:14 Aerthean So you'd have it sealed and depend solely on the L decay events?
18:14 asciilifeform correct.
18:16 asciilifeform Aerthean: currently this item not a priority for asciilifeform , as his previous attempt to market a much cheaper, wholly electronic rng was not a success.
18:16 asciilifeform there simply aint many folx who want these badly enuff to pay what they'd cost.
↖
18:17 Aerthean Yeah, that's true
18:18 asciilifeform this is actually a problem that plagues virtually any attempt at 'sane irons' projects.
18:18 Aerthean Cost-wise how much were you looking for the electronics in the system?
18:18 asciilifeform esp. if yer contemplating ic fabbing.
18:18 Aerthean Not a cheap business, and things always go wrong
18:19 asciilifeform Aerthean: i got a chinese firm to grow the LYSOs , <50$/ea in reasonably small qty. electronics, i expect, would cost similar. but shield is a mechanical object, and costs substantial $ to fabricate. likewise (and this was problem w/ FG as well) testing, it ultimately has to happen on my desk and the time aint free.
18:21 asciilifeform the current design also relies on a PIN diode, and the cheapest uv-optimized one i was able to make use of reliably is ~150$ in small qty.
18:21 asciilifeform generic PIN diodes have very poor (borderline unusable) SNR , i found.
18:21 asciilifeform at least for this application.
18:23 Aerthean I've found PINs good for non-fast pulse related tasks
18:23 asciilifeform for comparison, unit cost of FG , in materiel, was <50 $ . and still not 'bestseller'.
↖
18:24 asciilifeform Aerthean: aah, but the lower the deadtime, the better bitrate of rng.
18:25 asciilifeform ( and asciilifeform realizes that 100% of folx who traditionally care about fast pulse, use PMTs. but i rejected'em for same reason as rejected geigers -- they require HV, which requires oscillators; and they ~age~ detectably, which is unacceptable in rng )
↖
18:25 Aerthean True. I have some PINs at the lab and some LYSO tiles I'll try to take a look and see what results I get
18:25 Aerthean Have you considered using SiPMs?
18:26 Aerthean Does require bias
18:26 asciilifeform Aerthean: the 150 $ item is a SiPM ( i.e. micro array of PINs )
↖
18:26 Aerthean Depending on SiPM 40-70ish volts
18:27 asciilifeform and yes req's bias. i generated the bias via a cheat, that some might find interesting -- a set of sealed photoisolators, powered in parallel but outputs in series
18:27 asciilifeform extremely inefficient but afaik the ~only~ way, other than battery power, to get +45v w/out oscillator anywhere
18:28 Aerthean What did you use for the amplifier circuitry?
18:28 asciilifeform i'd dearly luvv to come up w/ a way to avoid using SiPM...
18:28 asciilifeform Aerthean: differential amp
18:29 asciilifeform Aerthean: if/when actually contemplate selling these, will publish the schems, just like published FG's
18:30 Aerthean You can get fairly good results from using a Sziklai Darlington
18:30 Aerthean MMIC amps work as well, but suck a lot of power
18:30 asciilifeform i suspect that all possible ways to make the amp will share the annoyance of requiring fiddling w/ trimpots and scope during assembly
18:30 asciilifeform and a large and very tight shield
18:31 asciilifeform hence would have to sell these for equiv. of coupla $k to come out in the black.
18:31 Aerthean I've run boards with SiPM + LYSO in open air, no shielding with good results
18:31 Aerthean Just light covering
18:31 Aerthean no metal shield
18:31 asciilifeform Aerthean: right, but presumably you weren't trying to make trng.
18:31 Aerthean Also true
18:32 asciilifeform the req's are completely different from e.g. 'get rough count of atmospheric gamma'
18:32 Aerthean I'm assuming you're trying to keep it from leaking RF everywhere
18:32 asciilifeform a trng that even in theory can be influenced by nearby rf, is a rubbish
18:33 asciilifeform leaking yes, but primarily ~from receiving~
18:33 asciilifeform most naive attempts at electronic rng, for instance, are really picking up local radio
18:34 asciilifeform in FG, the shields were actually substantial part of the unit cost.
18:34 asciilifeform ( and substantial effort went into shortening traces, and getting something like a solid ground plane while keeping the pcb 2layer for cost )
18:36 Aerthean Hm, it's odd, because I've used SiPM + LYSO and while you have some noise, it's usually worst case the size of the SiPM single-photon or dark pulses
18:36 Aerthean LYSO pulses were much bigger than that
18:36 BingoBoingo In trends and trending things http://jameslafond.com/article.php?id=12418
18:37 asciilifeform Aerthean: put yer amp next to e.g. keyed ham radio , and see what happens.
18:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: maybe i'm thick, but what did he mean in 'click on the tag' ?
18:38 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Up top he has a link to the category he uses for book reviews he has done
18:38 Aerthean Ah! There's the misunderstanding, you want robust against RF attack
18:39 asciilifeform ah
18:39 asciilifeform Aerthean: correct.
18:39 asciilifeform Aerthean: including 'attack' where attacker simply is aware of nearby strong signals.
18:39 asciilifeform e.g. if it's picking up 'voice of america', it aint a trng.
18:40 Aerthean Well, I can't say robust against say ham radio next to amp, but I can say doesn't pick up FM stations
18:40 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: re lafond -- i actually had bought a pile of his boox, coupla yrs back when you linked him ~erryday. they, i confess, were a snore, largely endless cut&pasta from his www. extremely repetitive.
18:41 asciilifeform Aerthean: whole point of using scintillator, is to remove, as much as physically possible, any external influence on the rng output, either manmade or natural. external meaning from anywhere outside the box.
↖
18:42 asciilifeform this includes power supply. (in purely electronic rng, yer stuck w/ battery power if you want troo isolation in the above sense.)
18:48 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019874 << shinohai , sadly this snapshot includes ~none of the useful zpf material. or even the last published ver. of his gnat.
18:48 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 18:06:43 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019858 <<< Archive link to his blog for teh logz https://archive.is/LGE6R
18:48 asciilifeform *zfp
18:48 shinohai :(
18:49 asciilifeform shinohai: for the former, phf's www has the patches but not of course the discussion.
18:49 shinohai I should have posted https://archive.is/ave1.org for all the url's that have snapshots
18:49 shinohai But anyone with grey matter can do.
18:49 Aerthean In the end, best thing to do is run some tests and post data for others to look at
18:51 asciilifeform Aerthean: not to say that testing is useless (see the various folx who tested FG, linked from the preserved www ) but some problems can only be dealt with properly ~categorically~, i.e. by making their occurrence physically impossible by design.
18:52 asciilifeform Aerthean: for instance, i avoided a whole world of hurt in orig. FG design by eschewing traditional avalanche diode , which in turn needs HV , and clean source of it
18:53 asciilifeform thing could run off 2 AA cells in fact.
↖
18:55 Aerthean I remember reading the paper you posted about an RNG that used a Zener I think.
18:55 asciilifeform prolly the oldest design known
18:56 Aerthean Except they messed up their design by whitening the output
18:56 asciilifeform right, afaik erry trng ever marketed, other than mine, committed this sin
18:56 asciilifeform zener, even if one powers it as i did (expensively) with the SiPM, also suffers from age effects.
18:58 asciilifeform for all the surface simplicity of trng, it is surprisingly hard to get 100% right, esp. if you are unwilling to lie to yourself & others via 'whitenings'.
18:59 Aerthean I've found that a truism about many things.
18:59 asciilifeform indeed applies to many things.
19:00 asciilifeform it is also the case that rng as commercial product is a very questionable biz proposition. it takes quite a bit of 'adulthood' to even get to a place where you actually benefit from a 1000 $ rng. for instance, microshit victims dun really win anyffin from using whatever external rng.
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
19:02 asciilifeform it's a little like marketing, say, a home autoclave. most folx will still not be qualified to perform surgery even if the tools were priced to be available to them.
↖
19:03 Aerthean Yes, just because one has a tool doesn't mean one can use it correctly
19:04 Aerthean Man with hammer syndrome
19:05 asciilifeform Aerthean: right. if i ever do sell the lyso rng, it'll be part of e.g. self-contained OTPtron, or similar.
19:05 Aerthean Thanks for indulging my curiousity.
19:06 asciilifeform Aerthean: no prob, and dun hesitate to ask in future.
19:06 asciilifeform fwiw i made the design of the earlier attempt pedantically, agonizingly public, there are literally kilometers of log discussing it
19:07 asciilifeform and 100% of sources/schems on www still, long after shop closed.
19:08 Aerthean I downloaded them in the past and read through them. Thought about baking a copy
19:08 asciilifeform Aerthean: it aint terribly hard, esp. if you dun need it to be compact so to fit in servers
19:08 asciilifeform original prototype was breadboarded (the 9572 was on a 'sample pack'-type DIP adapter)
19:08 Aerthean The parts also don't cost much
19:09 asciilifeform the analogue piece does have to be shielded tho
19:09 asciilifeform indeed they do not cost much.
19:10 asciilifeform i published the design in 2016, but no one has written in with 'i replicated..'.
19:12 Aerthean As mentioned above, most don't know of its existence. Then of those who do know, most probably don't care enough to build / buy.
19:13 asciilifeform Aerthean: near as i can tell, most computer users who even are aware of concept of rng, are satisfied with 'homeopathic' ones.
19:13 asciilifeform hence 'lemon market'.
19:14 asciilifeform there are some euro firms who offer 20,000+ $ 'golden toilet' rng. i investigated, all of'em whiten.
↖
19:14 asciilifeform i suspect they are simply tentacles of nsa-controlled 'crypto ag' shell company.
19:16 Aerthean Given the amount of money sloshing around these days it's hard to tell
19:16 Aerthean Nth front corporation of some US / other govt. organization
19:16 asciilifeform Aerthean: related reading. it is ~very~ difficult to profit by 'actually Do Right Thing' in engineering, vs. 'convincingly pretend to Do Right Thing' , 'i can't believe it's not butter!' atrocities.
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
19:17 Aerthean Ah hah, very good piece
19:18 Aerthean I think one can only do the right thing if one has a robust meat + extended wot
19:18 Aerthean For the record, I don't. So I continue to work my simple technician job.
19:18 asciilifeform in principle anyone can do. what can't do, is run a biz on such product, an' stay in the black.
19:19 asciilifeform Aerthean: i also day job.
19:19 asciilifeform Aerthean: exactly 0 of my attempts at 'Right Thing' ever so much as threatened to make it unnecessary. and i suspect is true for most folx who attempt.
19:20 Aerthean I suspect if it were becoming a success, then something would happen
19:20 asciilifeform Aerthean: very rarely does anyone have to manually gas people for 'right thing', normally market puts'em outta biz 'naturally'.
19:21 asciilifeform as discussed in the linked orlov piece.
19:21 asciilifeform this is why you can't buy even a toaster that lives for > coupla yrs.
19:21 Aerthean True, even natural events can bankrupt you
19:22 Aerthean You depend on a particular IC and the vendor stops building it
19:22 Aerthean See: I'm sorry for your loss.
19:22 asciilifeform Aerthean: this is part of why i used cpld, rather than microcontroller
19:22 asciilifeform theoretically, 0 vendor lock
19:22 asciilifeform could even have the circuit fabbed. if there were actually serious demand for it.
19:24 asciilifeform see the src, i specifically did not use ~any~ coad from xilinx's libs.
19:24 asciilifeform my original intent in fact was to bake it as a board fulla 74xxx standard discretes. but this wouldn't fit in a 1u.
19:26 Aerthean Very easy to examine then
19:26 asciilifeform the more general idea was discussed in the logs many times. it is why you can't buy a sane, open cpu. there is simply no way to pay for what the fabrication would cost. esp. if you refuse to go along with the vendor's demands to use their NDA'd cell libs & mswin shitwares.
↖
19:28 * asciilifeform actually went an' investigated a number of firms that offer 'small-run' ic fab in various processes. they all have these in common.
↖
19:29 asciilifeform ftr what asciilifeform was interested in fabbing, was simply a homogeneous-fabric fpga, scaled-up version of e.g. classic ice40 .
19:30 Aerthean I only have small knowledge of the fabrication field, mostly based on researching what you + others wrote about
19:30 asciilifeform there is presently no 100%-documented homogeneous fpga on market. and, for fundamental reasons, aint likely to be, 100% of fpga vendors live from the 'rent out the right to use our built-in NIC' and similar scamola
↖ ↖
19:31 asciilifeform Aerthean: you'll find various figures for cost, but keep in mind that almost all ic fab projects involve multiple attempts.
19:31 asciilifeform and full-time designers.
19:32 Aerthean I've done some work with a company that got some non-silicon analog devices fabricated and I helped with the wafer dicing and testing. This particular product never really worked out
19:32 asciilifeform the small-run folx also typically do not include ~packaging~ in their cost quote. (usually people who shell out for ic proto runs have the necessary gear in-house.)
19:32 asciilifeform they also offer 0 guarantees of yield.
19:33 Aerthean Yes, in our case the yield turned out ok, but the design had other problems.
19:33 asciilifeform right, hence 'take the quote and multiply it 10x or however many revisions it could take'.
19:34 Aerthean The company also had their own small fab where they could modify / bake things in very tiny quantities
19:34 Aerthean The people we worked with
19:34 asciilifeform unsurprising
19:34 Aerthean Probably the only way to do anything cost-effectively
19:35 asciilifeform presently i'm not aware of even a single instance of a fab job financed and successfully carried out by a 'human' (vs at least medium-sized organization).
19:35 asciilifeform dun mean that it's impossible -- certainly possible if yer sitting on a coupla $mil. but asciilifeform aint.
19:36 Aerthean and when you get a couple of $mil, suddenly other things become important
19:36 asciilifeform Aerthean: the folx who are, typically are concerned with ROI.
19:37 Aerthean Yes, that or they'd rather spend the money on drugs, whores, houses, boats, cars, etc
19:37 asciilifeform correct.
19:38 asciilifeform that's where asciilifeform's old coauthor eventually went.
19:38 asciilifeform i can't really blame folx for not wanting to throw $mil down black hole.
19:38 Aerthean I never showed up in trilema as MP started getting very ban happy
19:40 asciilifeform Aerthean: imho was quite palpably 'fuhrerbunker 1945' for most of 2019.
19:41 asciilifeform ( and 2020 -- fin. )
19:41 Aerthean I found his writing hit or miss, more miss in the future.
19:41 asciilifeform if seen film 'die untergang' -- will know, good illustration.
19:41 asciilifeform 'germany is not worthy' etc.
19:42 Aerthean Yes, I have seen that film
19:44 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019964 << Autoclaves do find their ways into homes of fungiculture enthusiasts.
19:44 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 19:02:27 asciilifeform: it's a little like marketing, say, a home autoclave. most folx will still not be qualified to perform surgery even if the tools were priced to be available to them.
19:45 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm aware.
19:45 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: possibly better example would be the idjits who bought up respirators during 'plague panic'
19:45 BingoBoingo Bipeds will appreciate civilized techs to the extent it allows them to dope
19:46 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: afaik the magic mushroom folx simply use pressure cookers tho.
19:47 BingoBoingo Ah, that yes. Especially considering those respirators drove a lot of the early mortality during the panic. (mechanical ventilation + inflamed lungs = traumatized and inflamed lungs)
19:48 asciilifeform aha, lungs popped like balloons.
19:48 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Some do, but dope people do their own sort of inner circle stotting. Same thing drives increasingly elaborate water pipes.
19:48 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm only surface-aware of what goes on in that subculture, but can picture.
19:49 asciilifeform 'ricers'.
19:49 feedbot http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/ussa-judge-gives-offender-probation-and-anger-management-in-county-fair-killing/ << The Montevideo Standard -- USSA: Judge Gives Offender Probation And "Anger Management" In County Fair Killing
19:50 * BingoBoingo has been proceeding these past few months as though tourism and entertainment, however anti-socially reconfigured, will return in a way.
19:51 Aerthean BingoBoingo: Aside from water pipes the last time I had contact with the dope subculture vaping? had become popular. Filling a large plastic balloon with smoke and breathing it in.
19:51 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: just how 'went away' is it in yer orcistan ?
19:52 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Border largely closed. Brothels reluctant to formally reopen. Theaters and museums adopted a bunch of weird.
19:52 feedbot http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/90-of-workers-with-unemployment-insurance-expiring-in-july-back-to-work/ << The Montevideo Standard -- 90% Of Workers With Unemployment Insurance Expiring In July Back To Work
19:53 BingoBoingo Aerthean: Vaping takes rather heavily tariffed tech here. Papers are still the locally dominant smoking tech.
19:53 * asciilifeform bbl
19:54 Aerthean BingoBoingo: Thanks, I'm surprised they would have such high tariffs on it.
19:55 BingoBoingo Aerthean: 400 USD balloon filler turns into 900 USD balloon filler
19:55 BingoBoingo Aerthean: General thing they do to imports here.
19:56 BingoBoingo Computers, pnoHes similarly marked up in the general case.
19:57 Aerthean BingoBoingo: That's a high markup! I was tangentially aware of the tariffs from the Pizarro venture, but in my mind I consider balloon filler fairly low tech
20:01 BingoBoingo Other devices far less expensive, but the balloon filling one still fairly fringe first world thing. Gets tarriff markup and "This is going to take up shop space for a while" markup
20:07 Aerthean Ah, every middle-man wants his cut. I recall first seeing it in the states back in 2010-2012ish.
~ 23 minutes ~
20:31 mats i have a few fg i wouldn't mind selling for 100usd of btc
~ 23 minutes ~
20:54 shinohai mats: Will DM you back about that in a few days.
20:55 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019837 << correct, but I'm pretty nice about it. just don't abuse it.
20:55 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 17:25:56 Aerthean: Regarding registering a key with the WoT, does a process exist for updating said key post registration (aside from asking trinque? nicely)
20:55 trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1019858 << meh, I'm done mourning these. waste abounds.
↖
20:55 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-20 17:59:10 asciilifeform: ( incidentally -- trinque , shinohai , et al -- ave1's www seems to be dead nao.. )
21:05 Aerthean trinque: Thanks, I will attempt to not have to change my key. Currently going through ascii's dulap instructions, once I get things working I'll generate a key and register it.
← 2020-08-19 | 2020-08-21 → ↑

Random(asciilifeform) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default