Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2020-08-14 | 2020-08-16 → ↓
03:03 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-12#1018832 << interested in hearing your theory for why this happened.
03:03 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-12 16:01:23 asciilifeform: there is a large, brick (quite rarity in usa) house near where asciilifeform lives. owner -- died, no immediate heirs, somehow ended up in bureaucratic limbo, uninhabited, decaying lawn machinery, etc. for many yrs, i assumed it had belonged to a successful businessman, or high official. then found out from elderly townsfolks -- a schoolteacher had lived there.
03:04 gregorynyssa I mean, why buying power has plummeted, and working hours have not decreased.
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03:04 gregorynyssa Mill once noted that labor-saving devices never end up saving labor.
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03:05 gregorynyssa do you think the 1971 cancellation of the gold standard played a role?
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03:14 gregorynyssa https://imgur.com/a/4EXyVC1 << this is from Truth Is a Lonely Warrior (2013)
~ 7 hours 50 minutes ~
11:04 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019332 << see also.
11:04 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:56 gregorynyssa: Mill once noted that labor-saving devices never end up saving labor.
11:09 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019331 << elite successfully defused the slave uprisings of late 19th - early 20th c. with well-equipped toolbox containing e.g. controlled faux-'left' 'movements', inflationism, debtism, burning off excess resources w/ world wars, zombification via 'journalism'.
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11:09 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:22 gregorynyssa: I mean, why buying power has plummeted, and working hours have not decreased.
11:10 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019333 << small piece of the puzzle, even tho folx luvv to focus on it to exclusion of nearly errything else.
11:10 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 03:05:51 gregorynyssa: do you think the 1971 cancellation of the gold standard played a role?
11:10 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-12 13:20:27 asciilifeform: seems like each particular crackpot who wakes up to civilizational decline fixates on 2-3 favourite boojums and impossible to persuade otherwise, or that anyffin else matters
~ 16 minutes ~
11:27 thimbronion asciilifeform: I am more and more persuaded that inflation was inevitable due to societal decline, rather than a specific decision to go off the gold standard - along the lines of mp's "inflation happens to places that aren't cool", or however he said it.
~ 35 minutes ~
12:02 asciilifeform thimbronion: inflation has two ends -- the shortages end , and the uncontrolled-printolade-emission end, which i suspect is the 1 yer thinking of;
12:02 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-13 20:46:21 asciilifeform: shinohai: inflations work 2 ways -- one of'em is the reason wai in prison cell pnoje costs 1k $
12:05 asciilifeform thimbronion: and is simply 1 method for elite to requisition goods & labour from the plebes. in ancient times -- or 20th c orc world -- can do same thing w/out manipulating currency, simply by conscripting people directly. but 'civilized world' thrives on the kind of fraud where you 'keep up appearances of free commerce' while in fact operating a command economy.
12:05 asciilifeform ( see also. )
12:05 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-12 16:10:56 asciilifeform: ... and so that the 'killed forest' of crapola he shits out, can be used to justify printing $trillions, so that coupla fuckwads can buy yachts. ( could ask, why not simply conscript the chair warmer to build yacht directly... )
12:07 asciilifeform thimbronion: it in fact 'happens from societal decline' , in the sense that elite resorts to it when unable to satisfy its appetites via the normal taxations / rents / crown privileges, and starts 'burning furniture'
12:15 asciilifeform schematic thought process of nomenklatura parasite, 'so what if i drove u.s. steel industry into the ground. just cuz my employees lost shirts, doesn't mean i should lose yachts. i'ma ask my chums at fed to print $trillion and give to me. and will throw a few pennies to the starving peasants, while at it, wouldn't want'em to organize and pull a 1917 on me..'
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12:21 asciilifeform the reason why inflation is observable in 'cartoon colours' in sad orcistans, e.g. argentina, is that in such shitholes, the elite's ~only asset is the printing press. crowned muppet ~will~ try to keep palace and private jet etc, even if has to pay for it 100% by printing peso.
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12:23 asciilifeform whereas in shitholes that retained 'ancient egyptian' algo of formally conscripted corvee labor -- e.g. north kr -- ~0 substantial inflation, the printolade aint needed
12:23 asciilifeform folx simply find themselves assigned to palace-building detail.
12:25 asciilifeform 'paper slavery' is, in light of past 300y of experimentation, substantially moar effective than the direct kind. folx building palaces at gunpoint tend to 'slow strike', drink, attempt to run away. whereas typical 'civilized world' sucker will willingly break his back for '401k' and 'stock options' and various other 'jam tomorrows'.
12:28 asciilifeform ... gulag, for instance, was heavily -ev. ~briefly~ seemed otherwise, in early '30s while 'easy mode' surface deposits of au not yet exhausted. but in the end closed down simply because ran at loss.
12:31 asciilifeform !w poll
12:31 watchglass Polling 12 nodes...
12:31 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870
12:31 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.075s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870 (Operator: asciilifeform)
12:31 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643745
12:31 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869 (Operator: asciilifeform)
12:31 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.085s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.293s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.278s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.588s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
12:31 watchglass 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.970s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870
12:31 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
~ 2 hours 59 minutes ~
15:31 kiwi_58 hey , thanks for offering the option to join without restrictions...
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15:34 shinohai Hi kiwi_58 who might you be?
15:34 kiwi_58 can i just ask those who might have interest or info what they might think about the usdt situation ? i dont trust the nyag because of the way she looks . but does anyone have any thoughts on the entire "run to 20k fueled by tether" hypothesis ? and what happens if nyag takes substantial action ? does btc crash ? do the other shitbux clones support
15:34 kiwi_58 a crash ? just looking for thoughts here ...
15:35 kiwi_58 hi shinohai . i'm just a random dude looking for insight on this issue...
15:36 shinohai I suppose by usdt = Tethercoin of some sort?
15:36 kiwi_58 yep
15:36 kiwi_58 specifically tether since thats who the nyag is looking at supposedly
15:36 shinohai I have no idea tbh. Never really used or studided tether and "stable" coins.
15:37 shinohai $ticker btc usd
15:37 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $11845.7
15:37 kiwi_58 cool
15:38 shinohai kiwi_58: Have a link to an article about this nyag situation?
15:39 kiwi_58 i can find one gimme a sec
15:40 shinohai kk
15:42 kiwi_58 number of older articles here : https://medium.com/@bitfinexed
15:42 kiwi_58 and...
15:47 kiwi_58 but then this : https://decrypt.co/26399/tether-not-pumping-bitcoin-new-academic-study-claims
15:50 shinohai ty, will read
15:51 kiwi_58 great... would love to hear any thoughts...
15:54 kiwi_58 this was supposed to be b4 the "but then this :" post ...https://elevenews.com/2019/09/28/tether-issuance-correlated-with-bitcoin-price-surges-academic-research-finds/
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15:55 shinohai Hang about here for a bit, I'm sure some will eventually chime in as they read logs
16:00 kiwi_58 sure... thanks
16:11 trinque kiwi_58: how would a collapse of bitfinex be different from the collapse of various other exchanges preceding?
16:11 trinque also these articles are from two years ago.
16:16 kiwi_58 trinque: not sure about first question... when gox collapsed that apparently had an effect... i understand now there are 50 or whatever so probably not the same effect... but if tether was even able to be shut down that might send its value to 0 and depending on all the shit i dont understand and am her to perhaps gain insight on , maybe it would
16:16 kiwi_58 affect something value-wise , depending on the books and how much tether is on each book ? and yeah two years is what the legal back and forth has taken between tether/bitfinex pawyers and nyag... hang on i will find the recent court development .
16:19 kiwi_58 https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2020/07/163883-new-york-supreme-court-rejects-crypto-exchange-bitfinex-and-parent-co-ifinexs-appeal-involving-850-million-in-lost-funds/
16:20 trinque I fail to see why some ag accidentally doing us a favor and shitcanning scammers would be a bad thing.
16:20 trinque gox came and went, bitcoin stands.
16:20 trinque this gox can go die as well.
16:20 trinque if you're exposed to bitcoin with money you need next year, you're doing it wrong.
16:21 kiwi_58 im not and that isnt what i asked
16:21 trinque sure, I'm questioning you upstream of "what do we think about USDT"
16:22 trinque I'd rather give you thinking than soundbites, ya know?
16:22 trinque if USDT matters, it'd be worthwhile to define why, before forming opinions about some news event involving it
16:27 kiwi_58 ok , my question is really about whether anyone has an opinion on if a potential crackdown on this tether "situation" would have an impact on the price of btc... i.e. sending it back to some level nearer the $700 that btc was when the whole insane flight to 20k took place...
16:29 trinque my pointing you at the history of gox was the best answer anyone will have.
16:30 kiwi_58 say I had $10k to invest ... muh personal interest has to do with the idea that i could buy 1 now , but maybe more if this situation unfolds negatively for the space and sends btc dropping...
16:31 trinque I'll say, your habit of ignoring responses doesn't do much for me.
16:31 kiwi_58 i didnt ignore anything man
16:32 kiwi_58 maybe i am misunderstanding... what did i ignore ?
16:33 kiwi_58 pretend im a fucking idiot... seems like it might be easy for you
16:34 trinque your question as posed wants someone "wiser" as you define it to "tell you what the news means to you"
16:34 trinque I pointed you at a subject you can research to extract yourself from the simple mindset that formed the question.
16:35 trinque anyone who gives you an investment strategy in a few sentences is throwing you to the wolves.
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16:35 trinque and you'd deserve it.
16:36 kiwi_58 ok thanks
16:39 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019369 << i gotta ask : how didja find this chan ?
16:39 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 15:31:16 kiwi_58: hey , thanks for offering the option to join without restrictions...
16:40 kiwi_58 btw for anyone else who cares to respond , i am not looking for an investment strategy for crying out loud... just thoughts on the situation...
16:41 kiwi_58 asciilifeform: been keeping my stupid eyes on this scene for a number of years
16:41 asciilifeform kiwi_58: afaik the only regular here who might know something about the specific $shitcoin yer into, is shinohai. and even that's even odds
16:42 asciilifeform ( iirc he works w/ shitcoinists occasionally, to fix their clients etc )
16:42 trinque retreat when someone asks *why* you ask is a horrible habit.
16:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019414 << trinque has it. kiwi_58 where do you normally tune in ? i'ma guess it's some snakepit where yesterday's penny-stock scammers --> today's shitcoinists -- tell you 'what is hot' , isnnit.
16:43 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 16:35:40 trinque: anyone who gives you an investment strategy in a few sentences is throwing you to the wolves.
16:45 asciilifeform if so, kiwi_58 , you've come to the wrong door, we don't have these here
16:45 kiwi_58 hmmm... let's see here . is the "why" trinque is referring to having to do with this : I fail to see why some ag accidentally doing us a favor and shitcanning scammers would be a bad thing." ?
16:47 trinque yep, I was taking the other side of the discourse, as is polite in some circles.
16:47 asciilifeform kiwi_58: why not start from beginning. tell in brief what is 'usdt' and why you suppose it is interesting ?
16:47 kiwi_58 if so , my answer is that i do not think the ag shutting down tether would be a bad thing .
16:47 kiwi_58 as that wasnt my question
16:47 kiwi_58 which i already indicated
16:47 trinque sweetheart, just do as the man says.
16:47 asciilifeform kiwi_58: you have 10m, starting now.
16:48 kiwi_58 haha ! 10 minutes for what ?
16:48 kiwi_58 you guys are too smart
16:48 kiwi_58 if you dont want to answer or think im a scumbag for asking thats fine
16:49 mats try #bitcoin-pricetalk
16:49 trinque it's a curious thing how much emotional self-evaluation comes into it.
16:49 asciilifeform wainot at least try to answer the q? you read the chan subjline. and presumably a page or 2 of log. did it look like this is ~the~ chan for oddball altcoins ?
16:50 kiwi_58 was just looking for some insight from some good minds... really didnt mean to wrong way
16:50 kiwi_58 rub you
16:50 kiwi_58 anyhoo
16:50 kiwi_58 thanks r time
16:50 kiwi_58 shit
16:50 kiwi_58 thanks for your time
16:53 kiwi_58 acsiilifeform: i really am happy to answer any question i can grasp the nature of... my original questions were : does anyone have any thoughts on the entire "run to 20k fueled by tether" hypothesis ? and what happens if nyag takes substantial action ? does btc crash ? do the other shitbux clones support a crash ?
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16:53 asciilifeform kiwi_58: i for one never iirc heard of 'tether' nor supposed 'crackdowns' on it nor why it'd matter at all in my lightcone.
16:54 asciilifeform it's exactly as 'interesting' as what the penny stock of the day in taiwan is.
16:54 kiwi_58 the last portion meaning might the other "pegged" coins stave off a crash... i didnt word that well...
16:55 asciilifeform some scammer promising 'i will give x usd for y paper shitcoin certificates' aint a 'peg' in any meaningful sense.
16:55 kiwi_58 i agree
16:56 asciilifeform as for effects of this and similar idiocies on btc exch rate -- imho the sooner paper-btc dies in a fire, the better.
16:56 snsabot Logged on 2020-05-05 19:44:52 asciilifeform: thimbronion: is a thing, but observe that 'paper bitcoin' also a thing. and accts for some unknown % of the exch value.
16:56 asciilifeform the correct amount of it to exist is zero.
16:57 asciilifeform time's up, btw.
16:58 asciilifeform hm trinque does deedbot choke on these ?
16:59 asciilifeform * asciilifeform has kicked kiwi_58 from #asciilifeform (kiwi_58)
16:59 asciilifeform * deedbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
16:59 asciilifeform maybe coincidence
17:03 * asciilifeform marvels at the sheer depth of the wtf. that conv was almost like trip backwards in time to 2013 #ba or worse
17:11 trinque shouldn't, but I'll check logs in a bit and see.
17:12 * trinque to trim some tethers back from his garage's roof, bbl
17:12 * asciilifeform also bbl
~ 2 hours 21 minutes ~
19:34 whaack !!v CAA4C7B4AC1602CDDAE66E12985930ED82E7C6D151E22CA3E1EEA7532AA38743
19:34 deedbot whaack paid asciilifeform invoice 1
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19:40 whaack about 1 month in my block count is at 425,550 after running bitcoind with -connect=205.134.172.27. i'm not sure if i'm stuck on this specific block or not
~ 22 minutes ~
20:03 mats maybe you need more peers
20:06 mats http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-16#1922907
20:06 snsabot (trilema) 2019-07-16 mod6: Then it should tunnel you through that remote host to connect to the bitcoin network and get blocks. Keep in mind that the example above is just that, and it also uses -connect, which is intended for connecting to a single node. You'll want to use -addnode for when connecting to more than one, and standard operation
~ 20 minutes ~
20:27 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019466 << ty whaack !
20:27 snsabot Logged on 2020-08-15 19:34:20 deedbot: whaack paid asciilifeform invoice 1
20:28 asciilifeform whaack: re your node -- look in your debug.log -- how many blox / day does it usually eat ?
20:30 * asciilifeform considering publishing his kludge, where a proggy milks 1 noad and force-feed another. cuz loox like may be a while before anyone bakes a 100% reliable sync in trb.
20:33 asciilifeform btw it is possible to give multiple noads in -connect ...
20:33 asciilifeform -connect a.b.c.d -connect e.f.g.h etc
20:42 asciilifeform !w poll
20:42 watchglass Polling 12 nodes...
20:42 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925 (Operator: asciilifeform)
20:42 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925 (Operator: asciilifeform)
20:42 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.216s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643784
20:42 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.218s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.391s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.642s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.055s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
20:42 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~
21:53 feedbot http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/san-jose-anti-drug-brigade-chief-and-three-members-of-force-arrested-for-drug-trafficking/ << The Montevideo Standard -- San Jose: Anti Drug Brigade Chief And Three Members Of Force Arrested For Drug Trafficking
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