#asciilifeform | 2020-08-06

!w poll

11:19

Polling 12 nodes...

11:19

205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.066s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.109s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488 (Operator: asciilifeform)

11:19

108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488 (Operator: asciilifeform)

11:19

205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.206s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.222s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.226s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.328s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.363s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.595s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=642488

11:19

176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)

~ 1 hours 10 minutes ~

12:29

whelp. I got proper adacore gnat to fucking build finally, outside the ave1 thing.

12:29

I had to move from Devuan to a newer Gentoo which already had the adacore thing in portage.

12:29

built fine, snagged patched sources from the gentoo work dir.

12:30

now I've got a fat pile of other dependencies that *don't* build on that gentoo

12:30

soon as you get one fucking thing tied down, another thing pops loose.

12:33

trinque: pops loose << typical. congrats on the breakthrough tho

~ 51 minutes ~

13:25

trinque: when you get a chance, plox to list the 'other deps'

13:28

*

asciilifeform recently had been looking at the 'ada rts' and its variants (e.g. ave1's) with the aim of eventual 'iron' rts that actually builds stock ffa/peh.

13:28

Logged on 2020-08-05 14:29:55 asciilifeform: idea being, single-task msdos-style os, bootable from <1MB storage (incl. rom, if preferred) that contains peh, simple text editor, speaks via rs232 port (incl. to FG) .

13:29

( ave1's, ftr, is missing several knobs which it is ~impossible to fully weasel out of using in a nontrivial proggy. in particular, ~local~ (vs propagated) exception handling ; i/o of integers ; and read() . )

13:43

found somewhat interesting www on subj, incidentally.

~ 2 hours 27 minutes ~

16:11

asciilifeform: the knobs are missing from the built compiler?

16:11

are they enabled by ./configure flags?

~ 17 minutes ~

16:29

trinque: mno, this was strictly in the cut-down ada rts (as in ave1's 'zfp' example)

16:31

gnat, unlike standard gcc, allows substitution of the standard lib when compiling. this way is possible to cut out the stock rts (which is massively bloated, and in fact rolls in libc -- in ave1's series of gnats, musl) and replace with, e.g., a simplified lib which invokes syscalls via asm, or in fact able to sit on raw irons, etc

16:32

( for further ref -- site where ave1's thing possibly was cribbed from re subj. )

16:34

for yet-further ref -- glibcistic gnat rts weighs ~1MB; musltronic -- 300k; a theoretically minimal (per ffa) one would weight coupla kB.

16:34

all of this is arguably because gcc's deadcoad elimination sucks balls (essentially no better than it was in 1990)

16:35

(e.g. threadisms end up in a binary where proggy used 0 threadism, etc)

~ 52 minutes ~

17:28

yeah, I'm asking where one'd point it at the slimmed RTS

17:28

looks like yes, configure flag:

17:28

https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.6.4/gnat_ugn_unw/Switches-for-gcc.html

17:28

--RTS=...

↖ ↖

17:28

asciilifeform: any reason to keep the fat RTS in tree then?

17:30

I'd like to be able to build e.g. vtools, though if that weren't to build, arguable that's what's broken.

~ 29 minutes ~

18:00

trinque: the 'fat' rts is the only public one atm which actually supports the whole ada-2012 lang

18:02

'slimmed' is prolly gonna end up being 'per proggy' for foreseeable future. e.g. ffa is even nao too 'fat' to build on ave1's cut-down rts, cuz it uses ...'Image , Ada.Sequential_IO, etc.

18:03

or, e.g., nqb (my draft blox parser) uses streams, and in fact illustrates why one'd even want the knob in the lang to begin with, it is impossible to eat wildly variable-bitness heathen data structures simply&compactly w/out it

18:04

or tasks -- various proggies use'em (simply i not happened to just yet, but expect to eventually)

18:04

what ~would~ like is if all of these things could somehow be separated in such a way as not to pollute a build where they aint used. but this'd require as i understand a total 'reversing' of gcc...

18:06

... meanwhile, in other strange. supposed dirt leak from intel co, incl., again supposedly, ME boobytrap & other nsaware sources.

18:07

*

asciilifeform will put in l1 warez dir when i have it.

18:07

Logged on 2020-07-21 11:28:38 asciilifeform: mats: whole thing is on dulap if you want it / have the disk space, lemme know.

18:11

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-06#1018024 << this is correct, but not the whole story -- see ave1's example: gnat will only eat a rts if the latter is config'd correctly (there's a built-in manifest thing, and some linker diddling)

18:11

Logged on 2020-08-06 17:28:43 trinque: --RTS=...

~ 55 minutes ~

19:06

Hello

19:06

wb amberglint

19:07

asciilifeform: I wanted to tell you about the Intel leak, but you already know that

19:07

So here's something else: http://interlisp.org/

19:07

The original developers of Interlisp-D are trying to revive it right now

19:07

Some of the objectives are... questionable though

19:07

interesting. tho i'd imagine the original authors at this time already dead

19:08

iirc there was a fairly complete emulator for msdos -- 'medley' -- but no (afaik) public src for it anywhere

19:08

*

asciilifeform has the (printed) manual for interlisp, but never extensively played with a working one

19:08

the src is supposed to go to shithub soon

19:09

theoretically interesting -- there were concepts in interlisp that never appeared in mit cadr + successors (bolix etc) -- e.g. the 'structure editor'

↖ ↖

19:09

sadly thing afaik mostly fossilized before 1980

19:09

yeah, I've heard about this particular feature

19:09

it had some DWIM stuff as well

19:11

the emulator ran on SunOS and was developed by Fuji Xerox

19:11

for reasons that are still not clear to me, interlisp afaik had ~0 commercial life

19:12

afaik Xerox's workstation division was mismanaged even more badly than LMI

19:13

xerox was even then a classic 'too big to fail' co., if even tried to sublicense the thing -- i'm not aware of the attempt

19:14

Medley was spun-off into a separate company which didn't live very long

19:14

prolly for same reason bolix's attempt to repackage their os for dec alpha flopped

19:15

i.e. the irons of the time were simply not adequate for smooth emulator

19:15

(smooth in the sense that users are not lured away by 'why not rewrite $proggy for native os')

19:17

*

asciilifeform suspects that the interlisp release will resemble mit's release of 'cadr' in 2010s -- 'too little, too late' -- but does intend to take a look at some pt

19:18

At least it's a bit more advanced than the CADR

19:20

almost certainly shares the main defect of it tho ( i.e. much of the cadr os is intimately tied up with the kludges required by period silicon )

19:20

Logged on 2020-02-11 16:30:18 asciilifeform: 'cadr' was designed to be buildable with the off-the-shelf discrete semiconductors ('bitslice') of its day, and as a consequence extremely baroque. 3600 inherited this gnarl.

19:21

( see also e.g. )

19:21

(trilema) 2018-11-16 asciilifeform: cadr was a horrendous thing because designed around two tonnes of 74xxx

~ 47 minutes ~

20:09

... meanwhile, had a look at the intel crapola. mostly junk, seems (binaries of various bios/modules), some docs, some sample mobo schematics. near as i can tell, 0 magic keys, and precious little in the way of src.

20:09

Logged on 2020-08-06 18:06:37 asciilifeform: ... meanwhile, in other strange. supposed dirt leak from intel co, incl., again supposedly, ME boobytrap & other nsaware sources.

20:09

will upload to dulap anyway, if mats, shinohai , anyone else in l1 interested.

20:11

the little src present, all builds strictly on winblowz; but this is not surprise in light of the 2010s faux-opensores intel bios pubs.

20:11

(trilema) 2016-08-06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-07#1516310 << on top of all of this, as if it were not enough: intel's bios crapolade, at least such as have been released or leaked, builds STRICTLY under winblowz. i shit thee not, MB of .bat.

20:13

i suspect the only folx who'd win from reading this item, are the coreboot devs who still give rat's arse re compat. w/ intel boards. but i also suspect that it'll do'em 0 good , castrato idjits will 'studiously pretend not to have seen', rather like the 'reactos' devs with the w7 src leaks.

20:14

"Kottmann also told us the archives passed to them were obtained from the partners-only design center: "As far as I am informed, the data I have was pretty much directly grabbed from the CDN for Intel's Resource and Design Center.""

20:14

*

asciilifeform for the most part gives very little shit re intel irons, either way. nao, a leak of e.g. amd's 'psp' boobytrap would be useful. but none to date.

20:16

amberglint: near as i can tell, usg strategy re leaks in last ~decade has been 'leak gigatonnes of garbage, maybe somehow people will lose interest in leaks as a concept'

20:17

the much-hyped snowden thing, incidentally, matches this picture. multi-GB of crapola, exactly 0 re cryptology.

20:18

Nintendo afficionados got more lucky recently, someone leaked actual hardware src for the N64 console

20:18

i.e. exactly 0 impact on the unknowns in my article re usgware for instance.

20:19

*

asciilifeform not nintendo aficionado

20:20

and iirc a 'run all games' emulator for n64 already existed 10+y ago, for that matter.

20:20

so can't think of why even aficionados might care.

20:25

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-06#1018071 << btw intel's (and similar circuses) 'nda-only docs' are avail. to 'over 9000' firms; ergo only lunatic would expect to find e.g. magic nsakey trigger for intel nics, ME, etc. in such place.

20:25

Logged on 2020-08-06 20:14:43 amberglint: "Kottmann also told us the archives passed to them were obtained from the partners-only design center: "As far as I am informed, the data I have was pretty much directly grabbed from the CDN for Intel's Resource and Design Center.""

20:25

*

asciilifeform thought 'dun hurt to look' however

20:26

*

asciilifeform bbl.

~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~

21:27

feedbot

http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/banco-central-del-uruguay-moves-to-begin-using-interest-rates-as-policy-tool-after-abandoning-practice-in-2013/ << The Montevideo Standard -- Banco Central del Uruguay Moves To Begin Using Interest Rates As Policy Tool After Abandoning Practice In 2013

~ 2 hours 18 minutes ~

23:46

... uploaded the pile o'shit to dulap.

23:47

sha512:2eb83c86a0b67737ebc209dbf2271d7319fdcb795534329b1992c6aee7ef9e815c7b6b6c91fb7698f494ff23df96aea618413e8bd60d0c63cae2e9063aab09d4 , 17914488809 byte, for whoever gives a damn.

23:49

*

asciilifeform stuffed it all in one tar.gz

23:52

fwiw the orig. torrent seems reasonably alive atm, so prolly redundant.

23:52

*

asciilifeform wonders if will live longenuff to see something ~actually interesting~ leaked. afaik 0 since 'ant catalogue' .

23:53