Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-03-16 | 2022-03-18 →
00:03 verisimilitude Let's change topic. Care to see an example of a koan from that collection I dislike?
~ 5 hours 47 minutes ~
05:51 verisimilitude
05:52 verisimilitude This JavaScript-pro hipster faggot is helping the cause you guys!
~ 8 hours 33 minutes ~
14:26 asciilifeform lulzy
14:26 * asciilifeform 100% in favour -- using shitware is its own punishment
~ 41 minutes ~
15:08 mangol the module's bug tracker is a trash fire
15:11 mangol asciilifeform: unless you're exhausted from yesterday's log, would be nice to hear your latest thinking on fits-in-head solutions vs big systems like CL and Ada. do you have an up to date blog post on the topic?
~ 20 minutes ~
15:32 asciilifeform mangol: much of asciilifeform's thinking re subj is readily found in the logs. will comment tho, that 'cl is obese' begins to seem like a rather dated ('90s) observation if stood next to current-day atrocities
15:33 asciilifeform mangol: as for ada, asciilifeform uses a subset of the lang, compactly summarized in his ffa series, which imho fits in head rather well.
15:33 dulapbot Logged on 2021-05-02 15:14:12 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if you read asciilifeform's adaisms will find that asciilifeform's variant of 'move beyond' was rather 'in' than 'out'. i.e. 'the better ada is a strict subset of standard one'
15:35 * shinohai wonders if asciilifeform cringes when people ask to be "pointed" to his Ada works ....
15:35 shinohai xD
15:36 asciilifeform mangol: speaking moar generally of fits-in-head -- a good % of asciilifeform et al's softs could be readily rewritten in a fits-in-head scripting lang if one were to be baked.
15:36 dulapbot Logged on 2020-01-13 19:25:45 asciilifeform: re 'sh' etc : there's a dire lack of civilized scripting lang presently.
15:36 asciilifeform ( see also e.g. thrd )
15:36 dulapbot Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
15:38 asciilifeform << i've nfi how mangol found his way here, possibly wasn't via asciilifeform's www, so wainot point him.
15:38 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 11:35:15 shinohai: wonders if asciilifeform cringes when people ask to be "pointed" to his Ada works ....
15:39 shinohai But in ffa coad there are no pointers!
15:39 asciilifeform indeed
15:40 asciilifeform << hilarious
15:40 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 11:07:31 mangol: the module's bug tracker is a trash fire
15:41 * asciilifeform wonders how many shitware libs need to be updated to 'rm -rf /' for folx to wake the fuck up
15:42 asciilifeform recall recent case, where not ukrwank but maintainer simply 'tired of working for ms for phree' ?
15:49 asciilifeform thread iirc
15:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 18:08:08 verisimilitude: In brief, some JavaScript pro hipster dipshit is upset his code primarily useful to corporations is being used by them without any payment.
15:52 asciilifeform << outta curiosity, mangol , how wouldja 'let go of the matter' if yer local stationary bandit were to take up sending you bills for $maxint ? (and if not paid -- and you won't, cuz you aint got $maxint -- with +interest)
15:52 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-16 19:27:57 mangol: << i got my info from the same comment as you, asciilifeform. did i misinterpret it? seems he was right to object to the tax, but couldn't let go of the matter
15:54 asciilifeform iirc naggum found that the only way to make'em stop was to quit working entirely and become a registered pauper. eventually succumbed to some easily preventable malady, from this.
15:57 asciilifeform ( who wants to wisecrack 'just fucking move' -- naggum moved, spent iirc 7+y in usa, ~went back~ to native shithole, could not endure usa )
16:03 asciilifeform ( for ref: moar re naggum's tax )
16:10 shinohai I made an ad for verisimilitude 's website, think it'll draw in the HN crowd?
16:10 asciilifeform lol
16:11 verisimilitude Why?
16:12 * asciilifeform can't be the only 1 who learned of the existence of these 'standard' icons from verisimilitude's thrd
16:13 shinohai ^_____^
16:13 asciilifeform or hm, maybe was actually shinohai who found'em
16:13 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-08 15:43:39 shinohai: Must suck to see hex in place of emojis of pregnant men.
16:15 shinohai " .... giving birth to great content since xxxx"
16:27 jonsykkel would insta clik that ad
16:38 verisimilitude Oh, hello again, jonsykkel.
16:38 jonsykkel hi
16:38 verisimilitude Did we exhaust discussing ancient software, or not?
16:38 mangol pregnant with diverse possibilities
16:38 jonsykkel idk, u tell me
16:39 jonsykkel tervetuloa mangol, tää on pastirol päivä
16:39 mangol lol
16:40 mangol you have been pastirolled
16:40 verisimilitude I suppose I should release another article about my method, before we continue.
16:40 jonsykkel go for it
16:41 verisimilitude I've planned it for a while.
16:42 verisimilitude I'm still ignorant of the details of ordinal and cardinal Latin numbers; I may split the article in twain because of this.
16:43 verisimilitude Say, care for a hint about a related program I want to write within the year?
16:46 jonsykkel sure
16:46 verisimilitude I noticed the part of an Elision targeting Latin which is responsible for taking in character sequences and converting them to the Elision representation could be made into a Whitaker's Words program with very little extra effort, only the effort needed to hook up a component differently and to provide for specialized output of results.
16:52 shinohai <<< bwahahahahaha
16:52 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 12:38:19 mangol: pregnant with diverse possibilities
16:56 jonsykkel a bit outside my wheelhouse verisimilitude, not sure what a whitakers words is but make sure u hire shinohai and mangol for marketing ur new app, they got the talent
17:04 shinohai top kek
17:05 mangol <<< the word "talent" came from money
17:07 mangol when "university" is divided in two, do you get "diversity"?
17:07 verisimilitude No, ``biversity''.
17:08 mangol that's the frathouse
17:12 mangol bivalent bonding. double dative.
17:13 mangol - what's your orientation? - am bivalent.
17:22 mangol <<< via www. thanks for the extensive pointers! i do know about the ada series, but was asking about the philosophical aspect
17:22 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 11:37:50 asciilifeform: << i've nfi how mangol found his way here, possibly wasn't via asciilifeform's www, so wainot point him.
17:25 signpost << hue, get your potassium iodate while you can, not when you must!
17:26 mangol <<< i have some pointers and ideas for scripting lang, if you're happy with scheme-like
17:26 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 11:48:47 asciilifeform: thread iirc
17:27 mangol most recenty, -- "A small and portable Scheme implementation with AOT and incremental compilers that fits in 4K. It supports closures, tail calls, first-class continuations and a REPL."
17:27 mangol from Gambit Scheme's author
17:29 mangol paper:
17:34 PeterL expand AOT?
17:34 mangol ahead-of-time compiler (as opposed to just-in-time aka JIT)
17:34 asciilifeform mangol: loox like a translator ('supports the target languages C, JavaScript, Python and Scheme') rather than compiler. snoar.
17:35 asciilifeform (or did i misread)
17:35 verisimilitude Well, a translator is a compiler, but still.
17:35 asciilifeform it dun target x86, loox like
17:36 * shinohai has been toying with here and there ...
17:38 mangol asciilifeform: you wanna pre-compile scripts to machine code?
17:38 asciilifeform mangol: imho even a plain interpreter, so long as fits-in-head, would be useful
17:39 verisimilitude This reminds me of something.
17:39 mangol ribbit is an bytecode interpreter
17:40 asciilifeform 'The Ribbit compiler is written in Scheme and can be executed with Gambit, Guile or Chicken' << it aint a standalone
17:40 verisimilitude
17:40 mangol code runs in a VM. the VM is just unusually puny and retargetable
17:40 asciilifeform mangol: see e.g. this thrd re what asciilifeform wanted.
17:40 dulapbot Logged on 2020-07-18 19:55:54 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles with bare hands' for many yrs.
17:40 verisimilitude
17:40 verisimilitude
17:41 verisimilitude The primary issue is Intel machine code sucks, so many decent tools are going to try to avoid it.
17:42 asciilifeform mangol: what's imho needed is a fully 'autarkik' scripting lang, which sucks in 0 shitlibs and runs, like 'M', on any extant pc iron under all linuxen from past ~15y
17:42 asciilifeform where e.g. 32kb of asm core, and the rest written in 'itself'
17:43 mangol asciilifeform: -- search for NO_STD
17:43 asciilifeform i'm seeing a .c, that's quite enuff to know it aint it
17:44 verisimilitude Thirty-two kibibytes is still huge.
17:44 asciilifeform mangol: good % of the objective is to shed the gcc/toolchain dependency
17:44 asciilifeform verisimilitude: quite. e.g. 'M' fit in <13 and emulates an entire machine arch
17:44 mangol you could implement a vm directy in asm
17:44 asciilifeform 32 is upper bound
17:45 asciilifeform mangol: exactly what proposed
17:45 mangol M is 13 K?
17:45 asciilifeform aha
17:45 mangol impressive
17:45 asciilifeform and uses 0 libs, not even libc
17:45 asciilifeform mangol: src
17:45 asciilifeform start here.
17:48 mangol thanks, will peruse
17:48 asciilifeform mangol: orig. posts re subj.
17:49 asciilifeform intro.
17:49 mangol yeah, just noticed!
17:49 asciilifeform mangol: it was not a successful experiment in that the emulated machine runs (on 2010s 'opteron') at roughly '486 dx' speed
17:50 mangol ok :D
17:50 asciilifeform but demonstrates the style in which asciilifeform believes a 'bootstrap' oughta be written
17:50 asciilifeform i.e. with 0 invocations of anyffin other than kernel abi (and even this could be substituted readily for raw machine i/o, turning the thing into a kernel if desired)
17:51 asciilifeform requires no c compiler to build, and certainly no existing lisp
17:51 mangol you probably know about
17:51 asciilifeform does need an assembler, so imho 1st order of biz once 'm'-style interpreter exists would be to write asmer in it, so can asm self
17:52 asciilifeform mangol: aware of various attempts, afaik all 'cheat' in some laughable way
17:53 mangol not sure.
17:53 mangol "Stage0 starts with just a 280 byte Hex monitor"
17:53 asciilifeform lol demands glibc
17:53 asciilifeform this is exactly what asciilifeform means by 'cheats laughably'
17:54 asciilifeform it's fucking insulting to one's intelligence to see '200 byte hex monitor' 'but also glibc, gcc, guile, but Doesn't Count Because Reasons'
18:02 verisimilitude I prefer my method, which generates machine code and separate metadata; there's never any ``building''.
18:02 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 13:51:05 asciilifeform: does need an assembler, so imho 1st order of biz once 'm'-style interpreter exists would be to write asmer in it, so can asm self
18:02 asciilifeform verisimilitude: what's diff b/w 'generate machinecoad' and 'building' ?
18:02 verisimilitude I'll rephrase.
18:03 verisimilitude I prefer my method, in which the machine code is manipulated directly, and separate metadata is also produced.
18:04 verisimilitude Press a key; give a register, say; and then see the direct machine code generated at the current address.
18:05 verisimilitude An assembler can have one or multiple passes; the MMC has no passes.
18:10 mangol this looks like an x86 boot sector stage0:
18:10 mangol not sure whether they've built anything up from there
18:11 asciilifeform mangol: loox like simply bootloader, these are 'dime a dozen'
18:11 asciilifeform (this 1 doesn't even init longmode.)
18:11 mangol what's the missing piece?
18:12 asciilifeform ~any hardware init whatsoever? lol
18:12 asciilifeform see e.g.
18:14 asciilifeform ... or interrupt table; or i/o... x86 is a bitch
18:15 asciilifeform behold, e.g. pci bus init on x64 pc. book-length horror.
18:15 asciilifeform and if miss a step (not all of which documented) dead in the water
18:16 mangol jesus
18:16 asciilifeform if you want e.g. nic to work -- aint optional
18:17 mangol IIRC ACPI is also mandatory, and everyone who returns from that quest seems scarred by the experience
18:17 asciilifeform ( and this doesn't even touch on the black magick req'd to make ~any particular~ nic chipset go.. )
18:17 asciilifeform mangol: on past ~10y of irons, can't get interrupts w/out initing acpi
18:19 mangol ^ this kind of thing is why i gave up pursuing minimalism
18:19 mangol like many things, it mainly has value to the extent that the rest of the world also pursues it
18:19 asciilifeform mangol: is why need new irons
18:20 mangol otherwise you'll just make a minimalist piece to put on a maximalist contraption, and the total system will be almost exactly as maximalist as before
18:20 asciilifeform exactly
18:21 mangol i moved from minimalism to standardization as a bedrock value
18:21 asciilifeform the legacy tub o'shit largely prevents meaningful standardization
18:22 mangol yep. to stay sane on PCs, you basically have to ignore hardware
18:23 mangol just put *nix on it and say "everything below this level of abstraction is magic and none of my business"
18:23 mangol build something that can be moved to simpler iron if/when such arrives
18:24 asciilifeform ... until the unixism no longer boots
18:24 asciilifeform on acct of the endless churn and spiralling complexity hell of chipset, nic, etc
18:25 mangol yeah. i heard a rumor that the main reason vendors wanna keep firmware blobs binary-only is that if people saw the source, they'd lose confidence in the hardware
18:25 asciilifeform this + moar or less overt intimidation from microshit et al
18:26 mangol can imagine
18:27 mangol my tentative OS plan is to take NetBSD (simplest ~comfortable Unix) and gradually replace pieces of it until the user-visible portion resembles a Lisp OS
18:28 mangol a handful of people are working on more pure Lisp OS. if we standardize what a lisp OS "userland" should look like, i hope code can be shared
18:29 mangol these are lispers we're talking about so convincing them to work together on anything is like pulling teeth, but i'm not easily deterred
18:31 mangol the only viable plan to get a lisp OS going which can support applications in the next couple of years is basically to put SBCL on some kind of unix
18:32 mangol you can get Maxima on it, and start working toward some kind of emacs. Nyxt may offer palatable webkit integration
18:34 signpost mangol: this is more or less the tale of gabriel_laddel from the logs.
18:35 signpost and his "masamune"
18:35 mangol signpost: never heard. will check
18:36 asciilifeform mangol: afaik absolutely nobody is working on a c-free bare-iron lisp atm
18:37 asciilifeform << doomed to impedance mismatch and eternal dependence on ocean of c liquishit and its toolchain
18:37 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 14:26:58 mangol: my tentative OS plan is to take NetBSD (simplest ~comfortable Unix) and gradually replace pieces of it until the user-visible portion resembles a Lisp OS
18:38 asciilifeform you can get exactly same result by simply booting an existing unixlike into e.g. sbcl.
18:38 asciilifeform i.e. nuffin worth writing home about.
18:38 verisimilitude The concept of ``userland'' is an abomination.
18:39 asciilifeform the fundamental proble, mangol , is the ~iron~. e.g. valiant attempts at 'from 0 os' from 2010s no longer function on anyffin you can currently purchase. (or even good % of vintage irons from period) on acct of 'peripheral babel'
18:39 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-09-17 asciilifeform: oh did i mention that i surveyed other folks' attempts, e.g.,
18:42 mangol <<< Loko Scheme and Mezzano are both C-free AFAIK
18:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 14:36:18 asciilifeform: mangol: afaik absolutely nobody is working on a c-free bare-iron lisp atm
18:43 asciilifeform mezzano thrd
18:43 dulapbot Logged on 2020-02-04 21:49:07 asciilifeform: shinohai: last looked in 2018. couldn't get it to run on any irons i had.
18:43 verisimilitude
18:43 mangol was just going to point out that c-free means driver-free
18:43 verisimilitude ``I fully understand that removing contributions of such users like nikic will break php as a script, but I think that this is the only viablle way to protest against what Russia is doing; to show that Russian people are welcomed no more anywhere.''
18:43 asciilifeform 'loko' docs : 'Loko Scheme needs an R6RS Scheme implementation for bootstrapping. It can currently be bootstrapped with Chez Scheme.'
18:44 asciilifeform how's that 'c-free' ?!
18:44 verisimilitude These are the same people who say they would've protested what was done to Jews in National Socialist Germany, yet they can be compelled to hate anyone by the TV.
18:44 shinohai iirc I got mezzano running, albeit painfully slow and got bored with it.
18:45 asciilifeform verisimilitude: difficult to object to this, asciilifeform a++ in favour of over9000x moar of this behaviour, what else could possibly stand a chance of curing ru, cn, et al from reich shitware
18:45 mangol asciilifeform: after the initial bootstrap, think it can be bootstrapped using itself (as most scheme implementations are)
18:45 asciilifeform mangol: is it unclear what asciilifeform means by 'c-free' ?
18:46 asciilifeform if the thing needs gnumake, 'existing scheme', etc. even 'to bootstrap -- how the fuck is it 'c-free' ?
18:46 verisimilitude It won't, asciilifeform; they'll just illegally share it.
18:46 mangol a c-free bootstrap is a nice-to-have for these people, not a primary objective
18:47 asciilifeform verisimilitude: well yes. using shitware per se needs to become over9000x moar painful. so from asciilifeform's pov a liquishit lib that suddenly 'rm -rf /' is a win.
18:47 verisimilitude The JavaScript was already painful.
18:47 asciilifeform mangol: 'these people' very carefully avoid all of the actually hard parts, and consequently avoid doing anything asciilifeform considers interesting or meaningful at all.
18:47 mangol myself, i've cheerfully resigned to basing everything i do on things written in C
18:48 asciilifeform mangol: over9000x moar honest approach than the pretense displayed in the linked 'lisp os' idiocies
18:48 mangol the main point of a lisp OS is hackability, which is not all-or-nothing. GNU Emacs is no lisp machine but it's certainly more hackable than MS Word
18:49 asciilifeform the problem is that software actually ~is~ 'all or nuffin' in long run.
18:49 mangol i don't quite where's the pretense, or the preoccupation with bootstrapping
18:49 mangol *quite get
18:49 asciilifeform if you can't boot the unixlike, or get it to drive yer vga card, etc. -- there'll be no emacsing either
18:49 mangol that's a given if you refuse drivers written in C
18:49 asciilifeform mangol: the pretense is that they offer supposed liberation from pile of legacy shitware and crashlang
18:50 asciilifeform whereas entirely bogus
18:50 mangol i don't think they claim to offer any such thing. these are hobby projects
18:51 asciilifeform mangol: 'it's a hobby proj' aint an excuse for smoke&mirrors games
18:51 verisimilitude The fun keeps going.
18:51 asciilifeform if i need gcc, gnumake, libc, to build it, it aint a fucking 'lisp os', and to use the phrase is disingenuous at the very least.
18:52 mangol anyone smart enough to know what lisp is will soon realize that you can't achieve any practical "liberation" from C with these projects
18:52 asciilifeform verisimilitude: a++
18:52 mangol ... or with anything else for that matter :-/
18:53 asciilifeform mangol: can, with new irons.
18:53 mangol except quitting computers and becoming a gardener or something :p
18:53 asciilifeform simply question of cost.
18:53 asciilifeform cost somewhere b/w sat launch & moon mission, sure. but aint infinite.
18:53 mangol do the new irons provide a feasible path toward browsing the web, watching videos, etc.?
18:54 asciilifeform ideally new 'web', but why not.
18:54 asciilifeform ( 1st order of biz -- piss on 'web standards' )
18:54 mangol i've checked out of minimalism like that :)
18:55 mangol actually i'd like a minimalist web next to the conventional one, but won't be checking out of the latter
18:55 asciilifeform upstack, even w/out any prospective of 'moon missions', could start by 'localized' minimalism of defining a usable prog lang that can actually be implemented in <32kB x64 asm.
18:56 * asciilifeform suggested this yrs ago at this pt, sadly has ~0 time to attempt
18:56 signpost mangol: one social problem here is the world full of "I just want to..." hobbies probably sums to a few finished items of actual benefit, were the effort reallocated.
18:57 signpost folks that could otherwise ^ have been trained into behaving themselves in their assigned box.
18:57 mangol asciilifeform: does that matter though? if you're still using *nix and x86. why not postpone the prog lang implementation until you know what instruction set the new iron is using
18:57 signpost this doesn't change practical matters, but neither does an individual's practical constraints change the broader context
18:58 asciilifeform mangol: the instruction set of the new iron will presumably be identical to the emulated one.
18:58 asciilifeform it's a 'chicken & egg' problem that has to be solved at one end or the other.
18:59 mangol signpost: can't quite parse whether you're saying hobby projects that languish in obscurity are good or bad
18:59 PeterL could do like pest: write spec, make protocol, adjust as needed?
18:59 verisimilitude A workable iterim solution is to write portable programs that can easily be moved to anything else.
18:59 verisimilitude Pest is one example, actually.
18:59 asciilifeform verisimilitude: portability aint sufficient tho
18:59 verisimilitude I mean in a decent language.
18:59 mangol verisimilitude: that's exactly why i've increasingly moved toward standardization
19:00 signpost mangol: quickly brings us back to the ethics thread, doesn't it, lol
19:00 asciilifeform for instance, imho the scheme-83 people published a perfectly edible instruction set.
19:00 dulapbot (trilema) 2017-01-07 phf: << scheme83 is like a "canticle for leibowitz" artifact. "published design" is overstatement of the century. scraps of published memos and reports spread over out of print conference proceedings, the bulk of actual technology needed to recreate probably somewhere on a TAPE. i don't know where you got that mask generator runs on scheme83. the entire production stack was for mit cadr
19:00 mangol signpost: :D
19:00 asciilifeform ( in re PeterL's pt )
19:01 mangol someone from GNU is resurrecting MIT CADR btw
19:02 asciilifeform terrible arch to ressurect.
19:02 dulapbot (trilema) 2018-11-16 asciilifeform: cadr was a horrendous thing because designed around two tonnes of 74xxx
19:02 asciilifeform none of the limitations which produced its gnarl apply today.
19:02 asciilifeform signpost: in re ethics thrd.
19:02 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-06 18:58:50 asciilifeform: << 'people' who behave amoebically (i.e. follow gradient of 'tastier right there right now'). and see also.
19:03 signpost mhm. if one wants to get into "why not be an amoeba", wrong question.
19:04 signpost question is why the ones that aren't, aren't thumping your head until you stop.
19:04 asciilifeform in fact wrong question. 'if you gotta ask, will never know'(tm)(r)(c)
19:05 mangol signpost: do you know how far Masamune got?
19:05 * signpost could fart around with a case that if anything at all is desired, wisely using finite time must also be, and from that other sensible decisions, but eh.
19:06 signpost isn't this that drives my own behavior but a growling inside.
19:06 asciilifeform mangol: afaik it began ( & ended ) with a gentoo which booted into sbcl
19:06 signpost mangol: guy apparently sawed his foot off or something, and then died or went to jail
19:06 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere gabriel_laddel
19:06 dulapbot gabriel_laddel last seen in #trilema on 2018-05-02 00:59:35: F-
19:06 asciilifeform rip.
19:06 mangol ouch. for real?
19:06 signpost he was one of those extreme types you were discussing
19:06 mangol peculiar?
19:07 asciilifeform fella had a substances problem
19:07 asciilifeform iirc ate stims by the kg until brain melted
19:08 mangol can cause psychosis
19:08 asciilifeform textbook case
19:09 asciilifeform had nowhere to go to, so he went nowhere.
19:09 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-12-01 asciilifeform: which is why i said to laddel 'dope requires discipline', because a lone programmer in a cellar is both general and soldier
19:12 verisimilitude I'd do drugs, but I fear damaging my mind.
19:12 mangol ^ good stuff in the logs
19:13 signpost verisimilitude: "When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts
19:13 signpost amusingly, drank himself to death iirc
19:13 mangol lol
19:13 mangol
19:13 dulapbot (trilema) 2016-12-01 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting upstack, imho 'mapper' and 'packer' as depicted in the essays are only 'types of people' in the sense that there were two types of inmate at auschwitz - folx who immediately jumped the fence and died on the wire, and ones who 'checked out' and turned 'Muselmann' ;
19:13 asciilifeform verisimilitude: see e.g. dope threads.
19:13 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-08 23:52:04 asciilifeform: << performance dope aficionados -- unless ~uncommonly~ disciplined -- get nailed by tolerance buildup.
19:13 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-16 11:34:33 asciilifeform: 'warriors on drugs' simply not interested in even admitting that folx take'em for reasons which often make sense, i.e. where life in usaschwitz in fact suxx palpably less on the dope than off
19:13 dulapbot Logged on 2020-08-01 19:57:25 asciilifeform: he admitted to taking dope regularly, and of the kind that exacerbates 'delusion of grandeur', was genuinely convinced that he had 'rebuilt lispm'...
19:15 verisimilitude What, signpost?
19:15 asciilifeform verisimilitude: doin' dope 'correctly' is as much a skill as e.g. running a table saw or flying a 'cessna'
19:15 verisimilitude I'll just continue to drink large amounts of coffee, asciilifeform.
19:16 verisimilitude Maybe once I accomplish some major goals, I'll try mind-altering drugs in a few decades.
19:16 asciilifeform even caffeine, most folx 'botch' by overdoing, simply is 'light' enuff that the consequences dun gum up their lives perceptibly
19:16 verisimilitude Yes, so it's fine.
19:18 signpost verisimilitude: gonna need more question than "what" bub
19:18 signpost what was he saying?
19:19 signpost drugs have a finite and non-linearly diminishing utility
19:19 verisimilitude Sure.
19:19 verisimilitude Alright.
19:20 verisimilitude Returning to this, I can build tables under any computing system, and later I can take my tables to one sane.
19:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-17 14:58:34 verisimilitude: A workable iterim solution is to write portable programs that can easily be moved to anything else.
19:29 * shinohai eagerly awaits Tables for workgroups v3.11 ....
19:33 * crtdaydreams has thought just-under-the-water about various lispm designs
19:33 crtdaydreams ... mostly incorporating modern technology
19:35 crtdaydreams i.e. FPGA, Fast Matrix Multiplication ((('tensor cores'))) et cetera.
19:43 crtdaydreams eh whatever. also my single-page html serving machine is up.
19:52 signpost
19:52 dulapbot (trilema) 2018-05-04 asciilifeform: 'brekekekekex' 'whatddayamean frogs have nuffin to say and aint welcome, i've plenty to say! brekeke.....'
~ 23 minutes ~
20:15 asciilifeform oblig naggum !
20:15 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-08-26 asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000×20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.'
20:22 verisimilitude ``Like, you don't buy a 150-million-dollar printing press just because you got an idea about publishing a newspaper -- you upgrade from the 75-million-dollar printing press when you approach 20 out of 24 hours running time 7 days a week and want to not run out of hours of the day before the new press can be delivered and run in.''
20:22 verisimilitude I'd forgotten from where I'd read this.
20:26 verisimilitude Thirty-two gibibytes is still enough for most things actually worth doing, I'd figure. A mebibyte that doesn't go wasted is enough for plenty.
20:27 verisimilitude I meant four gibibytes.
20:33 PeterL how did we jump from kB to GB?
20:37 verisimilitude I referred to what Naggum had written.
20:45 shinohai You guys will argue about anything, so Lithium manganese dioxide or Lithium poly-carbonmonofluoride? GO!
20:45 shinohai $ticker btc usd
20:45 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $40723.05
20:46 asciilifeform lithium deuteride!11
20:46 PeterL dilithium sodide?
20:46 shinohai If only I had a nuclear reactor to use it in ...
20:47 * shinohai kicks sand
~ 3 hours ~
23:47 signpost asciilifeform: << putin going after
23:48 signpost curious if there are any other lulz in the original russian post.
← 2022-03-16 | 2022-03-18 →