Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-01-09 | 2022-01-11 →
00:16 gregory5 << I feel like Oliver Wendell Holmes would be proud.
00:16 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 18:38:39 asciilifeform: i.e. in fact microshit confirmed the imho obvious state of affairs re ownership of shithub-hosted liquishit
00:17 gregory5 << that is to say, collective experience is sovereign.
00:17 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 18:37:06 asciilifeform: << of course not. ( for folx who did not read the linked lul: story ended with microshit.shithub ~confiscating~ the repo and freezing in old version, the one w/out the infinite loop)
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
01:34 whaack !e view-height
01:34 trbexplorer block_height: 717949
01:34 whaack !e view-txn 717949 1
01:34 trbexplorer 1 of 1
01:34 whaack !e view-txn 717949 0
01:34 trbexplorer 1 of 1
01:35 whaack !e view-txn 717948 0
01:35 trbexplorer 1 of 1
01:35 whaack !e view-block 717940
01:35 trbexplorer height: 717940
01:35 trbexplorer size: 301835
01:35 trbexplorer version: 820436992
01:35 trbexplorer prev_hash: 00000000000000000009b52f8c1b8b62cbde802225e503e2c7eee6034c94fc82
01:35 trbexplorer hash: 00000000000000000004db4bd9bb5602ca45e49fc049ee4185f0caa84ca9d92e
01:35 trbexplorer merkle_root: 236155f59d49d897a7c1d51a95b6d8c96ad72df021a3f3dfaba9a366d6325607
01:35 trbexplorer timestamp: 1641774032
01:35 trbexplorer target: 386632843
01:35 trbexplorer nonce: 593490181
01:35 trbexplorer num_txns: 962
01:36 whaack billmg: your logger shows tabs as spaces, not sure this is something that necessarily should be fixed
01:36 whaack asciilifeform: yours as well
01:37 verisimilitude Oh say, I'd a persistent issue sending email, because Google burdens emails that pass through IPv6, and I couldn't figure out how to configure the email sender I used to prefer IPv4 universally. I solved the issue by figuring out how to disable IPv6 on the entire server.
01:47 whaack asciilifeform: my test of "whats 3x9" has proved completely ineffective, i've gotten so much spam it's almost as if the bots have been encouraged by the challenge, maybe there's someway they are sidestepping the question entirely or they've actually scripted ways to detect and answer questions, or there is a large meatbot workshop
01:48 verisimilitude He mentioned the FG question was a great help.
01:48 verisimilitude Write a weird question like that, to go along with it.
~ 23 minutes ~
02:11 asciilifeform whaack: the seekrit seems to be straightforward: the meatbots use google & similar as 'answer machine'. you need at the minimum a puzzler that google won't answer automagically. +/-/*/div it answers (try it). which is why gotta have at least e.g. xor
02:12 verisimilitude I'd never even considered that method.
02:12 asciilifeform whaack: asciilifeform in fact observed several (less than half dozen) spams when used plain xor, however. hence added the fg riddle. after that went to zero and stayed there, since '18.
02:13 asciilifeform verisimilitude: cuz you aint an 'indian coader' spamatronicist. they default to this method.
02:13 asciilifeform the ones who have access to fresh proxies -- even script it, w/ ~no meat involvement req'd.
02:13 verisimilitude Yes. It reminds me of other vile things I'd never considered.
02:13 verisimilitude ``Finish eating, and then complain the waiter spit in the food to get it for free.''
02:14 asciilifeform verisimilitude: exterminators gotta learn to think like rat on demand.
02:14 verisimilitude Yes; how vile.
02:14 asciilifeform rather. which is why you seldom can get anyone to do it gratis
02:15 asciilifeform << asciilifeform simply cut off ipv6ism in pfsense
02:15 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 20:29:25 verisimilitude: Oh say, I'd a persistent issue sending email, because Google burdens emails that pass through IPv6, and I couldn't figure out how to configure the email sender I used to prefer IPv4 universally. I solved the issue by figuring out how to disable IPv6 on the entire server.
02:15 asciilifeform worx a+++
02:15 asciilifeform when it dun route, things switch back to good o' ipv4
02:15 asciilifeform (anyffin that hypothetically doesn't, you dun want on yer network to start with)
02:16 verisimilitude I used this: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/disable_ipv6
02:16 * asciilifeform disabled ipv6 in rack, iirc, also, no complaints to date
02:16 asciilifeform verisimilitude: if done on router -- oughta solve
02:17 asciilifeform most folx do have >1 box on their lan.
02:17 verisimilitude This is for a rented server, and I don't know.
02:18 * asciilifeform assumed whaack was discussing item on his desk, rather than a racked box
02:18 verisimilitude I like seeing others complain about IPv4.
02:18 verisimilitude ``What about the niggers and Indians who can't get an address?''
02:18 asciilifeform well they aint phree
02:19 asciilifeform see also.
02:19 asciilifeform ipv6 -- 'phree', but rather like the free single-layer toilet paper in public shitters..
02:19 whaack alright, i think i've updated my q to the point where it requires human sentence parsing
02:20 asciilifeform whaack: asciilifeform remembers at least 1 ru forum from yrs ago where double integral puzzlers
02:21 asciilifeform imho is a bit 'overboard'
02:21 verisimilitude Enter it into Google to check, whaack.
02:22 verisimilitude I've seen varieties where the challenge is ``Identify the anime girls who are actually dragons.'' and other silly things.
02:22 asciilifeform the graphical shit breaks e.g. 'lynx' and imho braindamaged for that reason alone
02:22 asciilifeform (not to mention that meatpuppets find it trivial)
02:22 verisimilitude Sure, but it's worth mentioning.
02:24 * asciilifeform considered item in the vein of (car (cdr (car '(1 2 3')))) but decided against
02:24 whaack If x^2 + 6 = 95, then what is the result of x!, when x is the positive solution to the previous equation ? (Note that ! refers to factorial, 3! = 3*2*1, 4! = 4*3*2*1, etc, so 5! = 120.)
02:24 * asciilifeform broken example but general idea is clear
02:24 whaack ^ above is the q, ver batim
02:24 verisimilitude Am I silly, or does x^2 + 6 = 95 not have an integer solution?
02:25 whaack i'm tired..thanks lol
02:25 verisimilitude I'm relieved. I was concerned I was stupid.
02:25 whaack nah, just me lol
02:26 whaack If x^2 + 6 = 87, then what is the result of x!, when x is the positive solution to the previous equation ? (Note that ! refers to factorial, 3! = 3*2*1, 4! = 4*3*2*1, etc, so 5! = 120.)
02:27 asciilifeform anuther, i suspect, good puzzler, is to show an integer from 0 to 2**32 and ask 'how many bits wide'
02:27 asciilifeform just about erryone who has any biz touching comp can do this in <2s in his head
02:27 asciilifeform but meatbots won't
02:28 whaack my thought is that i want to keep the door open to anyone thinking, and while anyone could figure out that question, someone never introduced to any decent math/cs course will have to go searching around to figure out how to answer that q
02:30 verisimilitude If I ever need anything similar, I may use a fill in the blank puzzle: ``I exude _.''
~ 39 minutes ~
03:10 * asciilifeform quite satisfied with his current puzzler scheme and has no intention of changing it any time soon
03:12 asciilifeform << imho this is a serious misconception (and misreading of the pertinent naggumism as well)
03:12 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 18:05:42 gregory5: the author, like Naggum, also blames the rise of PCs in the 1990s for ruining software as a discipline.
03:12 asciilifeform for 1 thing, 'rise of pc' took place in the '80s
03:13 asciilifeform which in fact was a golden age for the subject
03:14 asciilifeform what happened in '90s was the aggressive pushing of (microshitized) pc onto a plebemarket largely 'biologically' disinterested in the subj
03:15 asciilifeform ( and onto the 'biznis' idjit sphere, with the consequent 'lots and lots of people to perform menial tasks by mouse instead of by lever' )
03:16 asciilifeform i.e. what (started to) take place in '90s was the ~fall~ of the pc, rather than rise
03:18 * asciilifeform goes back to search for '4k' display-over-fiber cables that actually work, to run through the 25m conduit he had built on sat.
~ 16 minutes ~
03:34 verisimilitude I like how part of ``the lesson'' from the JavaScript nonsense is that individual programmers shouldn't be trusted, and a group should be required for random code to be ``trustworthy''.
03:48 vex sounds like the new digs is getting wired up seriously.
03:58 gregory5 << sorry I meant 1980s.
03:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:04:49 asciilifeform: for 1 thing, 'rise of pc' took place in the '80s
03:59 gregory5 however, the early 1990s saw the development of the GUI of Windows.
04:01 gregory5 << yep, from the enthusiasts to general professionals.
04:01 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:06:05 asciilifeform: what happened in '90s was the aggressive pushing of (microshitized) pc onto a plebemarket largely 'biologically' disinterested in the subj
04:03 gregory5 << the use of GitHub as a file-system for automatic updates struck me as a very poor idea when people first started adopting it.
04:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:26:46 verisimilitude: I like how part of ``the lesson'' from the JavaScript nonsense is that individual programmers shouldn't be trusted, and a group should be required for random code to be ``trustworthy''.
04:03 gregory5 it has been seven years or so, and people still haven't learned.
04:04 verisimilitude That's an odd use of the word ``people''.
04:05 gregory5 << are you opposed to the impersonal use of the word "people" (which is well established) or do you regard less intelligent beings as not qualifying as "people?"
04:05 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:56:30 verisimilitude: That's an odd use of the word ``people''.
04:06 verisimilitude It's the latter.
04:07 verisimilitude More spiritually, there are billions of ``people'', but not billions of souls.
04:07 gregory5 verisimilitude: you remind me of this article:
04:09 gregory5 << Curtis Yarvin in one of his early essays blamed the ancient idea of "one person, one soul" for sowing the seeds of the later Communist revolutions.
04:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:59:33 verisimilitude: More spiritually, there are billions of ``people'', but not billions of souls.
~ 26 minutes ~
04:35 vex is intelligence the opposite of stupidity?
04:37 verisimilitude Perhaps it's.
04:37 vex by verms def, the soulless are stupid. my def of intelligence is adaptability.
04:40 vex i think of souls as an old religious terminilogy
04:41 verisimilitude As do I.
04:44 verisimilitude This is from this article:
04:44 verisimilitude I'm perfectly fine with that idea humans hold souls, so long as it be acknowledged others lack them.
04:49 vex thought process broke my pc
04:50 vex I embrace stupidity. The concept of a soul is'nt in my working venacular
04:51 dpb according to the Bible, soul is blood
04:52 verisimilitude I've seen plenty of retards bleed.
04:52 vex you can lose it dan?
04:52 dpb i don't know
04:53 vex does not your soul go on forever in your church?
04:54 dpb Mark 8:36
04:54 dpb For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?
04:54 verisimilitude The world, clearly.
04:54 dpb this world is passing away, and it is vanity
04:55 verisimilitude Yes.
04:56 vex I'm pretty sure the bible says it's not a good idea to spill somones soul all over the floor right?
04:56 vex well, the blod anyway
04:56 dpb where does it say that
04:57 vex I thought there was a bit that said `thou shal not murder' or somesuch, dunno, never actualy parsed the whole thing
05:01 vex you know verisimilitude, obviously, that calling retards soulless would be an upopular opinion amongst a wide consensus
05:03 vex Igaf personally; I like hearing opnions
05:09 vex I kinda felt bad when I called dpb a ftuitloop, but then I remembered he's a fully grown man
05:10 vex cunt gives 0 fucks
05:11 verisimilitude Humans can learn many lessons from idiots, regardless.
05:14 vex that's why I read your blog mate ;)
05:17 vex can you ride a horse verisimilitude?
05:18 vex I've got an old plodder for asciilifeform
05:20 verisimilitude That's private.
05:21 vex fair enough.
05:24 vex first rule of horse riding: hold the fuck on
05:30 vex all my ponies talk texas style. sign, bromo. pet never want's a new kitchen with a throughbred
05:30 verisimilitude These are talking ponies?
05:31 vex yeah thhey talk
05:32 verisimilitude So these are magical ponies.
05:32 vex \ex racehorses mainly
05:33 vex mile a minute is easy going
05:34 vex if you squeeze you knees in tihgt. fast mode is epic
05:40 vex average modern man doesn't have a horse
05:44 vex #goals
05:49 vex I also feel a bit bad that I never sent a surfboard to mp. bodysurfing evidently wasn't his forte
05:52 vex mebbe i finish my idea and send to whaack
05:54 vex he can sit outside on a big day
05:56 vex when it's big, getting back to land is a whole mission
05:56 vex it's a hard lesson
06:01 vex I dunno why you'd move to cr without commissioning a board, or texas without a horse
06:03 vex everyones' idea of stupid is different
06:14 verisimilitude It may be found amusing REDDIT is a Latin word.
06:15 verisimilitude MARCVS TITO LIBRVM REDDIT
06:15 verisimilitude Marcus returns the book to Titus.
06:21 vex well, that's a turn up for the books
06:22 vex I've never met a marcus i didn't like
06:25 vex
~ 18 minutes ~
06:44 jonsykkel he returned book cuz he reddit?
06:44 vex en francais, pardon?
06:45 verisimilitude DARE
06:46 verisimilitude To give
06:46 verisimilitude REDDERE
06:46 verisimilitude To return
06:46 vex uoi
06:46 jonsykkel makes sens
06:46 vex I don't understand anything
06:50 vex i do
06:51 jonsykkel need to be latin xpert like me and v-tude to understand
06:51 vex My scool was cheap
06:51 verisimilitude As was mine.
06:52 vex Teachers hated me. tricky questions
06:54 vex don't bring those books to scool vex
07:00 vex but miss...
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
08:07 verisimilitude This doesn't seem ergonomic:
~ 2 hours 1 minutes ~
10:08 vex `offline' asciilifeform
10:22 vex renaming a boat id bad for a soul. offline is acceptable
10:23 vex radio check wants persons on board. not souls not people
10:24 vex I guess if you're stranded you sign sop
10:25 vex morse used a diferent definition of woke
10:28 vex I'd send ssm... save some monkeys
10:29 vex or don't. highly intelligent, will probably solve ourselves
10:33 vex are we dooing meercat jokes yet? or do we need to wait a whole year?
10:38 vex we have a cartoon romanian meercat that sells insurance on tv here. haven't seen it for a bit
10:40 vex simples
10:40 vex cazalla knows
10:48 vex
11:00 vex meanwhile, hanbot goes to get fresh tyres. watches coz noowhere elks to be.
11:04 vex life isan't as porno as she's thought
11:07 vex fake tits and a bmw, really tou oughtta be able to get a rotation in any tyreshop. anywhere
11:12 vex 3 blokes seeing to your every need, all at once
11:13 vex the small apprentice gets a card
11:16 vex gently ow
11:18 vex nevermind
~ 2 hours 2 minutes ~
13:20 asciilifeform << is part of a process where a faux-opensores 'komyoonity' was astroturfed into existence, consisting of folx jumping over one anuther to serve as unpaid labour for microshit et al
13:20 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:55:11 gregory5: << the use of GitHub as a file-system for automatic updates struck me as a very poor idea when people first started adopting it.
13:25 asciilifeform << revolutions (or simply in older terminology 'emperor lost the mandate of heaven') are a natural process. and incidentally asciilifeform does not share yarvin's worship of stability for the sake of stability (a la ancient egypt. no thx)
13:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 23:01:09 gregory5: << Curtis Yarvin in one of his early essays blamed the ancient idea of "one person, one soul" for sowing the seeds of the later Communist revolutions.
13:28 asciilifeform << general professionals -- in '80s, when field was at its historic peak. in '90s, 'shift' to the 'tv dinner' left half of the bell curve, pushed by microshit, with the consequent aolization, 'point and grunt', etc
13:28 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-09 22:53:34 gregory5: << yep, from the enthusiasts to general professionals.
13:33 asciilifeform << loox imho dead certain to give user new and unseen types of 'rsi' disease
13:33 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-10 02:59:18 verisimilitude: This doesn't seem ergonomic:
13:35 asciilifeform vex: asciilifeform dun have , and aint in the market for, horse, elephant, diesel boat, or whatever other stereotypical toys of the idle rich fucks. dunno wai not clear. not in the target group, simply
13:41 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
13:41 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $40882.71
13:41 asciilifeform $40 when!
13:41 asciilifeform !w poll
13:41 watchglass Polling 14 nodes...
13:41 watchglass : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019 (Operator: asciilifeform)
13:41 watchglass : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.115s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.093s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019 (Operator: asciilifeform)
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=718019 (Operator: whaack)
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.254s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.268s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717813
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.366s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=717813
13:41 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.605s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:41 watchglass : Alive: (0.231s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718019
13:43 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
13:49 asciilifeform billymg: this appears to work, ty !
13:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-07 15:27:46 billymg: asciilifeform: in my theme was one line that had to be moved to put the arithmetic test above the submit button, dunno how different our themes are though
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
14:52 asciilifeform whaack: oughta work similarly on your www. simply move the '<?php do_action('comment_form', $post->ID); ?>' thing to ~after~ the comment textarea in comment.php.
~ 2 hours ~
16:53 asciilifeform meanwhile, in heathendom, a bit of loathesome moxy agitprop.
16:53 asciilifeform 'People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will.' didjaknow.
16:54 shinohai lmfao running own server was prolly one of the first things I WANTED TO DO.
16:55 asciilifeform and of course 'run servers' for this slimeball means 'liquishit on top of ethereum' and not e.g. pest (or even emule etc)
16:55 asciilifeform from which 'follows' e.g. 'We should accept the premise that people will not run their own servers by designing systems that can distribute trust without having to distribute infrastructure. This means architecture that anticipates and accepts the inevitable outcome of relatively centralized client/server relationships, but uses cryptography (rather than infrastructure) to distribute trust.'
16:55 asciilifeform etc etc
16:56 asciilifeform and the cherry,
16:56 asciilifeform 'At this point, software projects require an enormous amount of human effort. Even relatively simple apps require a group of people to sit in front of a computer for eight hours a day, every day, forever. This wasn’t always the case, and there was a time when 50 people working on a software project wasn’t considered a “small team.” As long as software requires such concerted energy
16:56 asciilifeform and so much highly specialized human focus, I think it will have the tendency to serve the interests of the people sitting in that room every day rather than what we may consider our broader goals.'
16:57 asciilifeform hey didja know, thimbronion , yer actually over9000 indian chairwarmers, cuz how else was it possible to write a working proggy!111
16:57 dulapbot (trilema) 2017-02-18 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
16:58 asciilifeform << ikr!
16:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-10 11:46:34 shinohai: lmfao running own server was prolly one of the first things I WANTED TO DO.
17:02 shinohai btw asciilifeform if ya got time in a bit imma pgpgram you a new pest key and try to re-peer with ya.
17:02 asciilifeform 'In order to get a quick feeling for the space and a better understanding for what the future may hold, I decided to build a couple of dApps and create an NFT' << priceless
17:03 asciilifeform shinohai: how about nao
17:03 shinohai Sure gimmie 5 mins to get in office to gpgtron
17:03 asciilifeform aite
17:11 shinohai asciilifeform:
17:12 asciilifeform shinohai: ok, rekeyed
17:13 shinohai tyvm asciilifeform .... confirmed.
~ 24 minutes ~
17:38 whaack morning asciilifeform and shinohai
17:39 whaack heh the funniest part of that piece that thimbronion had pointed out was that the whole NFT scheme of 'register your jpeg on the blockchain' doesn't even store a hash of the img on ethereum, just a link to a url
17:43 shinohai Morning whaack !
17:44 * shinohai shinohai wonders if NFT users would feel rekt if I uploaded base64 representations of their jpegs to deedbot and resold 'em. :D
17:49 * whaack wonders how much money actually exchanges hands in the nft world
17:49 whaack peterl: mornin!
17:49 PeterL oh, hey there
17:49 whaack are you planning on joining pestnet soon?
17:49 PeterL yes, should be in it now?
17:55 whaack ^ responded in pestnet, but yes sorry i had not managed to see you there!
17:56 PeterL aha, I see it
17:58 billymg anonymously create NFT, "buy it" with your ETH (send the ETH to yourself), properly report the capital gains (difference in USD value of ETH at the time of your NFT purchase vs. rate at which you acquired it), your NFT "crashes" and you sell it for near zero, properly report capital losses from that sale to offset ~100% of capital gains from the other sale, pay zero tax and keep your ETH
17:59 mats i don't think irs considers nfts as property
18:00 billymg so you're saying there would be no "capital loss" to claim?
18:00 PeterL mats: why wouldn't they treat it the same as any other "cryptocurrency"?
18:00 billymg also, if they don't treat it as property that means there's no tax then, so just adjust the scheme so that you buy the NFT for near zero, then sell it for bazillion, pay zero tax
18:01 mats
18:02 billymg mats: that's kind of useless here re: NFTs
18:03 billymg if there's a relevant bit and you're trying to make a point just make the point
18:05 dpb there isn't capital gains if you don't gain dollars
18:06 mats lol
18:06 mats it is a taxable event if you receive ethereum for an nft
18:07 dpb is it taxable if you receive a cow for a chicken?
18:07 mats yes
18:07 mats whether there is enforcement is a different issue
18:08 dpb my accountant told me it's not capital gains if you don't get dollars
18:08 mats PeterL, billymg: i guess you could bet on irs treating nfts as virtual assets instead of collectibles, but that's hazardous
18:08 mats there's no formal notice
18:08 mats
18:09 PeterL are collectibles treated much different than assets?
18:09 shinohai We need premier mETH apologist pete_dushenski in here stat.
18:09 mats your accountant might be relying on the in kind property exchange tax treatment, burt that's dated
18:09 mats
18:10 billymg from the taxbit article: "In most cases, yes, NFTs (non-fungible tokens) are subject to the same tax laws as fungible cryptocurrencies. If you’re an artist who earned money from selling an NFT, you would need to report the proceeds as income on your tax return. And if you invest in NFTs, any profits earned through sales or trades will be taxed as property and subject to the capital gains tax."
18:12 mats keep reading
18:12 dpb what is the profit if you get something worth the same dollar amount as the thing you traded for it
18:13 mats what do you think?
18:13 billymg "Whenever you sell an NFT, you incur a capital gain or loss. For example, if you bought an NFT for $10,000 of ETH (this is your cost-basis) and then sold it for $15,000 of ETH, you would incur a taxable capital gain of $5,000."
18:13 dpb i think there isn't profit
18:13 mats that's not the same thing as the nft wash sale you described
18:13 mats i mean, maybe it could work, billymg, but i don't think its clear yet
18:14 mats oh, my bad, mistook it for the depreciated eth situation in the piece
18:15 dpb i don't care about counterfeit bitcoins. the IRS can tax them 100% for all i care
18:15 billymg obviously i was only musing anyway, i personally don't spend time attempting to "beat the house" with various schemes
18:15 asciilifeform ^
18:19 mats its a good scheme but far too available to retail
18:19 asciilifeform see also
18:19 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-25 14:44:10 asciilifeform: re 'holes' -- they work only for the enemy. (i.e the people for whom you are even being taxed to begin with)
18:20 asciilifeform when over9000 plebes go 'i'ma dodge tax via $loophole, like bezos' hole is patched pronto, for the abundandtly obv. reason.
18:22 asciilifeform (for that matter, even if it's just you and 5 other fiddlers, if you 'win' the audit lottery will be nailed, simply cuz you aint bezos)
18:23 billymg yeah, at this point the only winning move is cold storage that dies when you die
18:23 asciilifeform when you get a lump of usd from an official (e.g. gox) org, they generate a 'this fella owes' event in usg record. ~loss~ (i.e. rebuying same coin) generates no similar automatic subtraction.
18:23 dulapbot Logged on 2021-08-25 10:42:23 asciilifeform: punkman: in usa, if you have any kind of official presence there, when you buy xyz for coin from a usg.corp, they file a 'form 1099' tax report to declare that you've 'sold' coin and received its usd equiv. as 'income' (whether or not it in fact sold in the usual sense) and you eventually get a bill for up to half (!) of the sum.
18:23 asciilifeform yer stuck with the job of convincing tax collector that you dun owe.
18:27 asciilifeform this aint necessarily impossible, in general case -- if yer bezos etc, and retain armies of lawyers, accountants, etc. can have impeccable paperwork and get that subtraction to happen and even get 0
18:28 asciilifeform if yer a plebe, can also declare that 0, but at some pt will be audited and fined over9000.
18:29 mats well, the good news is that congress is still a lame duck and that'll probably continue after midterms conclude
18:30 mats so no new taxes
18:30 asciilifeform mats: wasn't speaking of new taxes, merely old ones
18:30 mats i know
18:32 billymg i assume everyone here remembers the attitudes of kids back in the days of napster, limewire, emule, etc. -- despite headlines of "jimmy gets $5M fine and 10 years in jail for downloading metallica" no one gave a shit
18:33 billymg i see same attitude in the youngsters these days re "crypto"
18:33 asciilifeform billymg: cuz was mostly hype. no one jailed, and the judgements (the handful there were) are dischargeable in bankruptcy (unlike tax debt)
18:34 asciilifeform of course plenty of folx in usa make 'over9000' and pay 0 tax, but they live in 'cash usa' generally
18:34 asciilifeform where no dossiers
18:34 billymg but i still see the same with kids in crypto these days, they literally don't care about the over9000 tax laws
18:34 asciilifeform billymg: reason for this is that they've ~0 usd
18:35 asciilifeform for so long as yer imaginary-rich in ethertardium etc., tax collection is -ev and aint done
18:35 billymg perhaps, i obviously don't have any real data to go on, just sentiment in forums
18:35 PeterL usg does not care about the lamers with nothing to their names, they care about the middle guys who they need to extract from to live
18:35 asciilifeform other thing is that in current-day usa the path from 'gox made you a 1099' to collections takes 4-5y
18:36 asciilifeform so most of the shitcoinism simply hasn't been around for that long
18:36 asciilifeform (usg.irc still runs mostly on paper, evidently, and worx at ~same pace as in pre-computerization age)
18:36 * whaack is happy that he has left usaschawitz and does 99% of transactions in a closed bitcoin<->cash loop
18:36 asciilifeform *usg.irs
18:36 asciilifeform whaack: closed loop worx
18:37 asciilifeform (so long as it's actually closed)
18:37 mats the new crypto broker provision will close most of the remaining holes
18:37 mats and there's more stuck legislation regarding defi and moneros
18:37 asciilifeform mats: as i gather billymg was speaking of folx who simply didn't bother to pay, rather than hole exploiters
18:38 mats many of those that can bother not to pay are because of reporting reqs
18:38 asciilifeform (in general one can 'not bother to pay' for many yrs and think 'got away')
18:41 billymg i'm just saying guys in their early 20s think different (lots of testosterone, willing to die on the frontlines because they know the alternative is living in the pod and eating the bugs), and they don't seem to have much respect for the IRS
18:41 billymg probably a lot of em will end up in El Salvador
18:41 asciilifeform these can 'get away with it' for potentially infinite time, simply by remaining usd.paupers
18:41 mats they won't get a choice
18:42 mats so long as they do business with rats
18:42 billymg and maybe biden drone strikes them all, idk. to me seems more likely that a new balance must be struck, like with unlimited music for $9.99/mo vs. $20 (1990's dollars) per cd
18:42 asciilifeform (tax collectors typically show up when you have sumthing for'em to collect)
18:42 asciilifeform billymg: actually very similar situation -- the current gen simply doesn't ~have~ that 20$ x # of disks
18:42 asciilifeform to their names
18:43 asciilifeform it's rather like with the 'student loan forgiveness' crapolade
18:43 asciilifeform 'they don't have what for us to collect' 'ikr, let's 'forgive' them, score points'
18:44 mats i wonder how many cryptobros will actually be able to stomach living in el salvador
18:44 asciilifeform the minute 1 of these people gets a paid job with $saltmine, will find bill for over9000 + fines
18:44 mats doesn't sound as appealing as chile or uruguay
18:45 asciilifeform mats: are they ~actually~ living in salvador or rather living in orcistan while paying w/ usg cards etc. tho
18:46 asciilifeform cuz the latter only delude selves that they're 'living in the outside'
18:46 billymg asciilifeform: i can see that too. and when they find someone who *does have*, they do collect
18:46 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-21 15:57:25 asciilifeform: shinohai: moar likely they simply wanted some btc (perhaps to refill waterfall, hence yest.'s -xx% dump)
18:46 asciilifeform (wherever yer living, if yer fiatola accts or cashflows are in reich, yer living in the reich, elementarily)
18:46 mats i do often wonder how latam will modernise its financial plumbing
18:48 asciilifeform mats: ro, turned out, 'modernized', hence wai asciilifeform could not get bank acct there in '17
18:48 asciilifeform and similarly BingoBoingo in uy, iirc was only able to get a reich-enabled 'lite' acct after giving us passport
18:48 mats will they get rolled up in usg's cbdc? e-cny? or some eclectic mix of bitcoins, usd stablecoins, other shitcoins
18:49 asciilifeform mats: whichever 'modernization', from 'user interface' pov will likely remain similar to today's imho
18:49 billymg mats: with bitcoin of course, will "leapfrog", like africa with cell phones. latam will say fuck off to FATFuck and it will become the new continent of freedom
18:49 asciilifeform billymg: the 'freedom' to pay over9000% import tax, for instance
18:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-08 12:05:51 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: mp sent BingoBoingo to uruguay (iirc was a choice b/w it and brazil) and when BB discovered that the only practical way to get irons there is to import (and either smuggle or pay 200% tax) , mp said 'oops' and put the isp (then called 'b.isp') for sale.
18:49 asciilifeform (if you want to buy sumthing that dun grow there)
18:50 asciilifeform afaik 100% of latam shitholes ^
18:50 asciilifeform afaik it's how they fund their elite yachts. 'hey yer a rich foreigner, pony up'
18:50 mats billymg: tx fees are too high
18:51 mats so its back to chivos and lightning network
18:51 billymg mats: lightning, yeah
18:51 billymg for the everyday stuff, bitcoin for when you're buying a house
18:52 mats i dunno, we'll see
18:52 whaack doesn't lightning only save 20-50% of the txn data? or is it completely off chain?
18:52 mats the network effect of usd and rmb is much stronger
18:52 billymg whaack: pretty sure lightning transactions are 100% off chain
18:53 mats yeah, LN channels still need to be opened and closed
18:53 billymg segwit is the 25% savings ones or whatever
18:53 billymg mats: right
18:53 asciilifeform big fat diff whether they're on-chain if gox keeps dossier, neh
18:53 mats if you do it entirely in a chivo then 100% free
18:53 mats as i understand it
18:53 asciilifeform ( and wtf is a 'chivo' ? )
18:53 whaack 100% free with 10% of going bust?
18:53 shinohai asciilifeform: fuckchivos
18:54 * shinohai chuckles, but chivo is ElSalvador's rebadged strike wallet ....
18:54 asciilifeform a
18:54 whaack from what i understand chivo is some wallet they promoted here that lost a bunch of peoples i-cant-believe-its-not-bitcoin
18:54 asciilifeform i.e. their national gox ?
18:54 billymg asciilifeform: exactly
18:54 asciilifeform a ok
18:55 asciilifeform dun see what major diff from user pov from any other gox then
18:55 billymg but works with sending/receiving to "private addresses"
18:55 billymg i guess just like gox
18:55 asciilifeform as in actual btc tx? or 'private' like 'protonmail'
18:55 billymg asciilifeform: afaik no tx tax on btc in ES
18:55 billymg asciilifeform: like actual btc
18:56 asciilifeform a
18:56 asciilifeform if 'no tax', prolly simply the bait in a future bait&switch then
18:56 asciilifeform how else.
18:56 billymg bukele seems serious about this, i'm cautiously optimistic
18:57 billymg asciilifeform: well from bukele's perspective this move could bring in a bunch of coins from all over the world
18:57 asciilifeform right, bring'em in, then harvest
18:57 asciilifeform (why else to bring'em in)
18:57 billymg the bringing in is the harvesting
18:57 asciilifeform not if '0 tax 4evah' neh
18:58 billymg why not? wouldn't be any different from gold based economy, no?
18:58 asciilifeform a state 'bringing in' dough w/out intending to steal it, makes as much sense as a pedo 'only offering candy' w/out planning to fuck
18:58 billymg there would still be sales tax, income tax, whatever
18:58 billymg just no made up "capital gains" tax
18:58 asciilifeform a
18:59 asciilifeform then not all that diff from e.g. europistan neh
18:59 asciilifeform (or the moar btc-friendly jurisdictions, e.g. wherever jurov lived)
18:59 billymg asciilifeform: right, i do remember reading that there are some other countries that have 0% capital gains tax on bitcoin
18:59 billymg dunno which countries though
19:00 asciilifeform these always have some other means to rip off, e.g. extortionate vat
19:00 asciilifeform like uy
19:00 billymg yeah
19:00 asciilifeform 'tanstaafl'
19:00 mats is it really extortionate though
19:00 asciilifeform mats: didja fughet the uy customs thing ?
19:00 mats i've never looked at an analysis of it vs the us style sales tax system
19:01 billymg even in cr i see tons of "cash preferred" businesses (e.g. you get a discount which coincidentally looks a lot like the vat rate)
19:01 asciilifeform usa doesn't seem to give half a rat's arse re the tax value of the contents of suitcases at airport
19:01 asciilifeform unlike ar, uy, etc
19:01 asciilifeform (or even packages in the post)
19:01 asciilifeform anyffin short of a railcar
19:02 mats maybe packages should cost more
19:03 mats there'd be less consumption if people were more poor
19:03 whaack my understanding of el salv pres is that he is a massively ambitious person who sees bitcoin adoption as his path to more power
19:03 billymg asciilifeform: in cr mostly don't care at the airport either, though every now and then you might "win lottery" and they'll try to appraise your items
19:04 asciilifeform billymg: dunno if you recall, in piz era, ben_vulpes 'won' this lottery
19:04 asciilifeform (in uy)
19:04 asciilifeform tax was considerably in excess of the actual value of the cargo
19:05 billymg asciilifeform: there's a way around it too, at least in cr. have your printed out lulazon invoice ready to go, if under $500 then no tax (html inspect element)
19:05 asciilifeform (inevitably, given that it gets assessed against close to 'new price' of the goodies)
19:05 asciilifeform billymg: asciilifeform had shipped various small items directly via lulazon, tax was ~equal to the purchase prices
19:05 asciilifeform iirc BingoBoingo found a way to get (some of it) back
19:05 asciilifeform but took aeons
19:06 billymg i mean for the suitcase carry, not shipped
19:06 asciilifeform right, but if yer springing for the plane tickets, may as well use asciilifeform's method
19:06 billymg yes, when ordering off amazon here, the landed price is basically 2x list price (but this includes shipping also)
19:06 asciilifeform aaha
19:06 asciilifeform exactly what asciilifeform was talking about.
19:06 mats nice
19:07 asciilifeform asciilifeform's 0tax suitcase method sadly req's a courier w/ us passport tho.
19:07 billymg but, asciilifeform, if you buy land for a coupla million, they don't have to import that
19:07 asciilifeform (how else to plausibly 'intend to bring it all back')
19:07 asciilifeform billymg: or bananas, lol
19:08 asciilifeform but yer gonna make usb cable outta banana peel or wat.
19:08 billymg just saying, it's reich tax on 100% of purchase vs. bananastan tax on only imports
19:08 billymg purchases*
19:08 asciilifeform all depends, do you intend to live like monkey or white man.
19:08 asciilifeform the latter will be importing ~errything
19:09 asciilifeform bananistan doesn't make cpus.
19:09 billymg well, when building a house, the wood and concrete (and labor) is local here
19:09 billymg a lot of the food is local
19:10 asciilifeform food , house, women, etc. sure, can local
19:10 billymg like basics, chicken, pork, beef
19:10 billymg yes, exactly
19:10 asciilifeform hence 'depends'
19:10 whaack you need to find ways to get shit from the us, and it is expensive and complicated, no doubt about that, that is one of the prices you pay to live in 'bananistan'
19:11 asciilifeform iirc whaack is running field test of this, so can comment in depth
19:12 billymg asciilifeform: can tell you my personal experience: if i need an item now, i eat the 100% markup to order on amazon. if i don't need it now, or know that i will need so many per year, i have a family member bring it in a suitcase
19:13 asciilifeform if you still have the us passport, can bring things by hand asciilifeform-style ; but as i understand this defeats half the point of living in banania
19:13 asciilifeform a
19:13 asciilifeform makes sense
19:13 asciilifeform if you have folx willing to courier for you, yer golden
19:13 whaack billymg and i use the same sytem then
19:13 whaack nice thing about cr is it is very easy to convince people to have a vacation here
19:13 asciilifeform makes sense
19:14 asciilifeform 'go to beach, bring me cpu'
19:14 whaack pretty much
19:14 asciilifeform i suppose worx if you have w/ whom and aint in any kinda hurry
19:14 billymg yeah, and if cr becomes the next El Salvador then likely the service whaack and i use will start eating btc
19:14 bitbot (pest) 2022-01-07 billymg: awt, whaack: you guys seen this yet? saw it here
19:14 bitbot (pest) 2022-01-07 signpost[billymg]: billymg: iirc bukele said two other countries were going to accept bitcoin as legal tender in 2022
19:15 * asciilifeform moar in the category of 'how to get btc' problem rather than 'how to eat it efficiently'
19:15 asciilifeform tho the latter problem aint uninteresting to asciilifeform
19:16 mats is it a problem because you dont want to buy aml kyc coin?
19:18 asciilifeform mats: well wouldn't be problem then, neh. would buy clean coin tho
19:20 * asciilifeform had a fella who was for long time endlessly hungry to trade coin for shitpaper, but he drowned
19:22 asciilifeform mats: i misread yer ln. yes, dun want 'amlcoin' obv
19:22 asciilifeform 0 use for that. is 'buying own cross'.
19:24 mats there are still retail venues for buying non amlcoin
19:24 asciilifeform mats: well there's 'local dark alley' lol
19:24 * asciilifeform not interested
19:25 mats there are still bitcoin atms that only ask for sms verification
19:25 asciilifeform so amlcoin
19:25 asciilifeform all the ones in asciilifeform's local also have prominent cameras
19:25 mats you can buy a phone and card with cash
19:26 asciilifeform (tried to use 1, for laffs, found that it dun actually emit coin: it gives you ~url~ , goes to a gox, where demands address, ssn, etc !)
19:26 mats they won't be able to do that legally for long, i think the crypto broker provision kicks in end of year
19:26 asciilifeform mats: ithink they already 'kicjked in here' lol
19:26 mats i think the coinflip people still don't ask for ssn etc
19:27 mats the nonaml atms are much fewer in number than the aml ones, so it takes some looking
19:27 billymg asciilifeform: seeing as how this is a public log and you use your real name on your blog, what's the difference between "we suspect you have coin because gox told us" and "we suspect you have coin because you were talking about it"? don't both roads lead to the same soldering iron?
19:28 mats but they definitely exist
19:28 billymg in both cases can say "no, lost the keys"
19:28 billymg or "no, got hacked and stolen"
19:29 mats asserting ownership at all is not recommended
19:29 billymg mats: you mean "lost/stolen" implies "had" to begin with?
19:30 mats yes, and what if it moves ten years later
19:30 billymg that's why "stolen" superior to "lost"
19:30 mats better not to answer any questions
19:31 billymg i see your point
19:32 asciilifeform << great q. the correct response is individual matter (but generally some variant of this formula )
19:32 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-10 14:20:34 billymg: in both cases can say "no, lost the keys"
19:32 dulapbot Logged on 2020-12-16 22:10:16 asciilifeform: as for the coin, the correct algo to 'hodl' is exactly same today as was in '09. i.e. your hdd has what's indistinguishable from rng output. and as for the key, maybe you once had it, but now lost in boating accident. and forgot where boated. (and if you can't stick to the story, will have to carry cyanide.)
19:33 asciilifeform proving present-tense control of a coin is impossible. but if yer in a situation where this doesn't actually help you (in torture room) it doesn't even matter whether you own any coin, will still get ling-chi'd
19:35 asciilifeform ( how wouldja prove that you've coughed up yer last coin? there's a reason dpr aint getting out )
19:36 asciilifeform the other pertinent detail is the sheer sloth of the bureaucracy -- for instance asciilifeform still gets calls offering 'ts clearance'
19:36 asciilifeform 'try reading my www?'
19:36 asciilifeform 'we dun do that'
19:37 asciilifeform prolly you could write for yrs in detail re how you stole the kohinoor diamond and killed kennedy, and the machine only wakes up once someone issues you a '1099'
19:38 asciilifeform ( why this is so, continues to astonish asciilifeform . but remains. )
19:39 asciilifeform mp's hypothesis, that they want not a corpse, but a suitable actor ready to act 'correctly' and enthusiastically in show trial play , prolly had some merit.
19:39 asciilifeform but impossible to say for certain.
19:40 asciilifeform the shape of the intake end of the funnel certainly supports it.
19:40 dulapbot (trilema) 2017-05-25 asciilifeform: has at this point lost count of the 'fine folx' who offered him 'sure profitz' involving white powders/militias/deathrays across-the-border/across-the-ocean/in-shangri-la/in-shiticonvalley etc etc
19:43 asciilifeform actually earning a usg carbomb ('addressed to name, not 'to occupant'') seems to take moar ingenuity atm than asciilifeform has to muster.
19:50 whaack afaik ross is selling nft's
19:51 whaack i actually tried to watch the trial in nyc, but i showed up on the wrong day
19:57 asciilifeform whaack: what makes you think it's him ? accepts payment in prison scrip ?
19:57 asciilifeform ( dunno if even makes a diff, reich has a 'profits of crimes' where crown keeps 100% iirc )
19:59 whaack nah, very possible it's fake ross
19:59 asciilifeform i dun recall a pubkey for him even before taken captive
20:01 * asciilifeform would not regard messages purporting to originate from a reich captive as authentic for any serious purpose; w/ exception of an unlikely escape & getting to his keyz
20:02 asciilifeform usg captive oughta be viewed as dead. like one at gestapo.
20:06 mats lol, recalls when OJ had to give up rights to his 'i did it' book
20:06 asciilifeform iirc is a straightforward statute, no special decrees req'd
20:07 asciilifeform 'may not profit from his crime' etc
20:08 mats apparently OJ was paroled last month
20:09 mats oh, actually, early release from parole
20:09 mats maybe i'll see him in vegas
20:10 mats lots of people have cellphones in us prisons, asciilifeform
20:10 mats although i don't know what the fed system is like
~ 36 minutes ~
20:47 asciilifeform mats: generally in even deepest prison in the world one can find a way to sneak a message out.
20:47 asciilifeform what one can't do is to sneak an ~authenticable~ message out (with possible exception of small-bitcount 'head otp' in the old style of 'code sentence')
20:49 asciilifeform r. hess for instance sat incommunicado '45--'87, but near his 'suicide' did, supposedly, get a coupla letters out via a priest.
20:49 asciilifeform (this was discovered and he was 'hanged himself' before could send out anyffin 'interesting')
20:50 asciilifeform d00d, if anyone is unfamiliar, was the 1 and only occupant (w/ exception of his coupla dozen guards) of spandau, berlin, for last iirc 20+y of his sentence
20:51 asciilifeform mats: an impromptu (i.e. w/out codewords) msg via pnoje aint 'authenticable', can rather likely be simply under dictation of jailer
20:52 asciilifeform (not even in the elementary case of 'i know his voice' authenticable, asciilifeform can barely tell over modern 2kb/s pnojes who is talking)
20:53 asciilifeform tldr -- if you anticipate having something to say to folx from reich dungeon, agree on magick words in advance.
20:53 asciilifeform (and they gotta sound innocuous)
20:53 asciilifeform the # of people who oughta know what they are -- is exactly 2. you and the addressee.
20:57 mats i want 1 gyro with extra lamb fat and white sauce
20:57 asciilifeform 'they gave me spaghetti. i asked for spaghetti-os's! i want the press to know this.' -- fella in electric chair, famously
20:59 asciilifeform or, i suppose, can 'be creative', capt. kidd threw some scribble at the crowd from gallows, still today reprinted as 'treasure map'
20:59 asciilifeform (incidentally iirc his treasure is 'in' cr !!)
20:59 asciilifeform cocos island.
21:01 asciilifeform scribble iirc had map and a blob of purported ciphertext.
21:01 PeterL this is kinda like pest, you have to have separate key for each potential adressee
21:02 asciilifeform PeterL: well, symmetric. a la lamport or whatever otp.
21:03 asciilifeform nobody's yet devised a pubkey algo you can use in head.
21:03 asciilifeform heads dun come in the size req'd for any extant one.
21:07 * asciilifeform recalls scene in n.stephenson's 'cryptonomicon' where some fella was captured and found 'conveniently' in his cell a lappy with pgp and his ciphered privkey. naturally bugged.
21:10 asciilifeform 1337 w4r3z if anyone gives a damn
21:23 mats i read that inmates use green dot card numbers as currency
21:23 asciilifeform how'd that work ?
21:23 asciilifeform (and hm wat's a green dot card to start with?)
21:24 mats
21:24 asciilifeform a
21:25 asciilifeform 'The company collects identifying information about account holders, which according to court documents helped the FBI locate a suspect's home in the BGF case.' << lol! megacurrency
~ 32 minutes ~
21:58 whaack pete_rizzo_: howdy
21:58 pete_rizzo_ yo yo
~ 40 minutes ~
22:39 * asciilifeform was gonna 'wb pete_rizzo' but toolate, evaporated
22:43 whaack yup, maybe logs should have join/part included, since the frequency has gone done substantially
22:45 asciilifeform whaack: irc obsolete rly
22:45 * asciilifeform not contemplating any major changes to logotron w/ exception of what's req'd for pestization
22:46 * asciilifeform does not discourage folx from loggin join/parts if they feel like it, but they aint meaningful in pestism
22:51 whaack fair enough
~ 29 minutes ~
23:20 bonechewer Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, folks.
23:20 asciilifeform why ty bonechewer
23:21 bonechewer Here is another attempt at some glad tidings, though YMMV. Regarding [
23:21 dulapbot Logged on 2021-12-24 19:05:18 asciilifeform: speakin' of collapse & shortages of erryday items, turns out that furniture made of actual wood has '6+ mo' (i.e. unbounded, a la btc miners) queues. and that's with prepay
23:23 bonechewer Ten or so years ago, it was possible to haggle with the manager at one of this outfit's retail locations, strike a bargain on floor samples, and come back a day later with a truck and roll of cash
23:23 bonechewer NFI about the situation today, but certainly worth a visit if asciilifeform is ever as far north as the NYC environs
23:24 asciilifeform bonechewer: it's a day's drive there from asciilifeform's shithole.
23:24 asciilifeform bonechewer: fortunately already bought the req'd item w/ cash in a back alley deal tho. but ty
23:25 bonechewer Yep, but the price differential was worth a few hours' drive for me
23:25 asciilifeform from Official vendors situation was utterly sol. the fella who sold asciilifeform his, wanted to upgrade, paid in august, still waiting.
23:26 bonechewer ah, didn't realize you only need one item. I had a whole shopping list, which made the drive worthwhile
23:26 bonechewer *needed one item
23:26 asciilifeform needed several, bought'em all for cash from humans
23:26 bonechewer gotcha
23:27 asciilifeform skipped the idjit 'custom laquers' tax (not to mention extortionate sales tax etc)
23:27 bonechewer trading with humans in cash is really very nice, I'll miss it if/when the lizards stamp it out
23:27 asciilifeform will stamp it out when the mind control towers properly debugged & online
23:27 asciilifeform not sooner
23:30 * asciilifeform recs to anyone who hasn't one, to buy rusty truck while still can, the largest you can find, a++ instrument for this kinda thing
23:31 asciilifeform easily pays for itself after 3-4 avoidances of the 'newness tax' via 'be at xyz warehouse at 0700 hrs w/ $'
23:32 asciilifeform (rentals are a joak where asciilifeform lives, easily 'reserve week+ in advance' xor 'we haven't any trucks, sorry')
23:33 bonechewer Folks are getting wise to the net present value of reichsbux vs. functional capital items. I bought a 2009 SUV two years ago for $8k, now see folx online asking ~$12k for same model with comparable mileage
23:33 asciilifeform easily
23:33 asciilifeform e.g. took asciilifeform coupla wks to find a < 10k$ tub that'd still move under own power
23:34 asciilifeform (and numerous visits to junkyards masquerading as auto lots)
23:35 asciilifeform 'musical chairs'. find yerself a chair.
23:35 * bonechewer farms those visits out to at $179 a pop; expensive but makes long-distance purchases thinkable
23:39 * asciilifeform very reluctantly pays people to do a work he can do w/ own hands
23:39 asciilifeform perhaps too reluctantly
23:42 bonechewer Sure, for local purchases using them doesn't make sense. For distant purchases, though, it lets me make up my mind on the vehicle without potentially wasting a day traveling to go see it.
23:45 bonechewer But in any case, now that you have the truck, happy hunting and happy terraforming, asciiliform!
23:45 * bonechewer must bbl
23:58 asciilifeform ty bonechewer
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