Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2019-12-05 | 2019-12-07 →
09:02 spyked <-- done. sorry for the delay
09:02 ossabot Logged on 2019-12-04 13:51:20 asciilifeform: spyked: can plz add jfw's www to the feedbot roster for #a ? ty
~ 3 hours 9 minutes ~
12:11 feedbot << Ossa Sepia -- Cutting through the Tangles (Notes on Graphics in Eulora, VII)
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~
14:35 asciilifeform ty spyked
14:39 asciilifeform !q seen-anywhere trinque
14:39 snsabot trinque last seen in #trinque on 2019-11-30 22:01:27: ah that was it, had the wrong guy.
14:40 shinohai gm asciilifeform o/
14:41 asciilifeform ohey shinohai .
14:42 shinohai <<< going to publish list of public knobs when I bring bot back online later today.
14:42 snsabot Logged on 2019-11-28 00:05:25 asciilifeform: shinohai: does that bot have any public knobs yet ?
14:42 asciilifeform shinohai: neato. genesis soon ?
14:43 shinohai Maybe, though I'm kind of mulling whether I want to publish all modules or not (since they are individual lisp scripts).
14:44 shinohai Pretty sure no one here wants the telegram side of bot either.
14:45 asciilifeform lol shinohai , what else is in there, aol messenger plugin ?!
14:45 asciilifeform what possessed you to write such thing ?
14:45 shinohai lol no aol plugin, telegram I did because that's the shitcoin cave these days.
14:46 shinohai Lots of shitcoiners on discord too, but pita to write bots for their api + I don't really use it much.
14:47 shinohai (observe doesn't even work anymore)
14:48 asciilifeform shinohai: found this worth the effort ? what's there in that heathen pit that was interesting ?
14:49 shinohai Well there are a few jobs-for-coin in heathen pit, mainly why I'm there. As said many times, I don't mind converting shitcoins to btc proper.
14:50 asciilifeform a, i assumed this was done using goxes
14:50 shinohai Occasionally lulzy items, as altcoiners try to reinvent fiat BUT ON THE BLOCKCHAIN!
14:52 shinohai <<< you do, but sometimes find otc trader, or the new thing is "DEX" which requires no kyc and such.
14:52 snsabot Logged on 2019-12-06 14:50:17 asciilifeform: a, i assumed this was done using goxes
14:52 asciilifeform the latter operates via heathen chats ?
14:53 shinohai Nah most are some kind of weird where you use "platform token" or OP_CHECKLOCKTIME_VERIFY to make trades.
14:53 asciilifeform i recall using some heathen 'shitc in, btc out' thing for squeezing juice from a forkcoin coupla yrs ago, but iirc that one vanished shortly after
14:55 shinohai But as far as coin things go, jfw 's scheme wallet most interesting item I've seen in year+ or more.
14:56 asciilifeform shinohai: it's the most readable such item i've yet encountered
14:56 asciilifeform even his orig. py prototype is quite readable.
14:57 asciilifeform realized, when reading, that i'ma need extended-euclidean in ffa ( and not only for eccisms, but e.g. cramer-shoup )
14:57 shinohai Dunno why I have such a distaste for py things. When you released shiva, I was pretty excited about using it for rpc things, but I'm not well versed in tinyscheme yet.
14:59 asciilifeform shinohai: as you know, i've written kilometres of py. e.g. device diddles, phuctor frontend, wartime logger .
14:59 asciilifeform it's 'a perl' tho, not fit for safety-critical systems, imho obvious why
15:01 * asciilifeform orig. learned py to write plugins for 'ida', many yrs ago
15:02 shinohai It has it's places I guess, and of course ran jhvh1 fine for years. But as you stated above, certainly not something I'd want to build Bitcoin wallet on.
15:02 asciilifeform has same place as perl 20y ago.
15:02 asciilifeform 'duct tape.'
15:04 shinohai bash, sed, and awk have always been my duct tape. Still use it to generate www pages xD
15:06 asciilifeform if there were a full-featured scripting lang made by civilized folk, would use that, and throw py out.
15:07 asciilifeform presently none exists tho. ( recall the convos re 'in what log bot?' )
15:09 shinohai Wasn't someone next door working an Adalisp or somesuch at one point?
15:09 asciilifeform i admit, never was able to understand the php aficionados -- what's the use of having a second, even uglier python where cannot e.g. persistent processes , or quick runs from shell ?
15:09 asciilifeform shinohai: spyked iirc made attempt
15:09 asciilifeform but it's larger proj than merely 'port tinyscheme to ada', need various knobs (sockets, db, at the very least) to be of practical use imho
15:10 shinohai I share distaste for php, why I never liked/used turdpress
15:11 shinohai I'm curious, what is asciilifeform 's favourite db ?
15:11 asciilifeform shinohai: i still have www w/ php (sewn from even older wp than mp's) but erry time i open the hood on it, is approx as pleasant as when fiddling old fortranisms
15:11 shinohai lol
15:11 asciilifeform shinohai: for phuctor and logotron used 'postgres' . would not describe as 'favourite', simply was best horse i found in that glue factory.
15:12 shinohai lone php script on my www atm is paste mechanism
15:12 shinohai It's like 50 loc so can stomach it.
15:14 asciilifeform for 'postgres' i at least know how to massage e.g. indices, so can be queried in not o(N). i expect this can be done for other sqltrons, but never found a persuasive reason to try.
15:14 asciilifeform imho best db for 'serious' proggy is an actual purpose-made data structure, with mmap to disk.
15:16 asciilifeform sqlism for db is rather similar to e.g. plasticine as construction material. great if you aren't certain what the shape is to be, but otherwise in erry way suboptimal.
15:18 * shinohai ducks because using sqlite with bot ....
15:18 asciilifeform shinohai: the 1st phuctor stood on sqlite.
15:18 asciilifeform eventually led to minute+ loads.
15:19 asciilifeform i expect a log bot could run for 1000+ yrs on sqlite easily
15:19 shinohai It's pretty neat if not constantly under load, but yeah can see phuctor exhausting it.
15:20 asciilifeform iirc phf actually got away with having entire working set in ram, no db at all
15:20 asciilifeform ( he never published a lick of src, all i've to go on is his commentary in #t at various times )
15:21 shinohai phf's front end to logger was always my favorite, that's one item I wish he had published. (along with patch viewer)
15:22 asciilifeform would've been great imho to have whole thing
15:22 asciilifeform instead of the current perlisms.
15:22 asciilifeform the patch viewer i'ma have to reimplement (w/ hopper for in-wot sigs) unless he somehow comes back to life
15:23 asciilifeform doesn't seem like anyone else is about to do it; and imho the 'oh hey i signed your proggy, nao where do i put this' situation is ridiculous
15:24 asciilifeform there's no reason for valid in-wot sig to languish as a wp comment until manually copied to 'code shelf' or the like
15:24 asciilifeform it's an eminently automatable thing
15:24 shinohai I've been busy past few months trying to organise all the patches/seals for stuff I use in single place. So have, e.g. trb ffa
15:24 diana_coman asciilifeform: fwiw I don't see that problem; what I sign I put on my code shelf where it belongs.
15:25 diana_coman sure, can automate the process further.
15:25 asciilifeform diana_coman: i'd rather prefer one where patch viewer and folx can upload sigs which then go where ought to
15:26 diana_coman maybe; I don't really know why would I go about uploading my sig to someone else's site.
15:26 asciilifeform diana_coman: would upload to own site, primarily. and viewer can sync from other folxs' .
15:27 asciilifeform diana_coman: recall mp's crit of asciilifeform's 'i convert and upload jpg by hand', where he 'if i did this, would be 10x fewer photo tours, couldn't be arsed'
15:28 diana_coman myeah, except here the bottleneck is people signing, not "too many sigs"; arguably at some point we get to too many sigs but I don't see it there yet.
15:29 asciilifeform diana_coman: the other reason for wwwistic patch viewer, is so as to link to lines of proggy. presently i have an extremely ugly hack for this.
15:29 asciilifeform ( gnat's html gen thing doesn't in fact permit links to indiv. lines, but only (some!? why? nfi) subroutines; and of course entirely unaware of 'v' )
15:30 asciilifeform ideally, could link to any line in any vtronic proggy, and would be visible 'which patch', 'who signed' .
15:30 asciilifeform phf went most of the way to this before ran outta juice.
15:31 diana_coman yeah, the problem that is easier to solve (for bonus points it also allows for a very elegant solution, yay); true.
15:31 * asciilifeform actually started work on this in 2015, shortly after published orig. vtron -- but shelved, as phf , much handier wwwtronicist, put one up 1st. but phf never gave src.
15:33 asciilifeform diana_coman: would also like to be able to ~search~ the 'v yggdrasil' (to crib diana_coman's terminology)
15:34 diana_coman I'd like first to have yggradsil.
15:34 asciilifeform ( phf -- did not live long enuff to attempt this )
15:36 asciilifeform diana_coman: i.e. whole universe in one vtree ? iirc this was discussed even in '15. idea theoretically appealing, but i suspect in practice would break backs. picture if any time you published, had to 1st say 'pause' to 900 folx, or get 'orphaned'.
15:36 asciilifeform 1990s versionatrons (e.g. 'cvs' if you recall) actually worked like this.
15:37 diana_coman asciilifeform: interconnected/linked does not mean at all pause to everyone; but there's no imminent danger of that so not much point worrying about it now.
15:37 asciilifeform diana_coman: well, 'pause publication' rather than 'pause all work'. but afaik yes it would, work rather like btc chain.
15:38 asciilifeform if you were to have per-project rather than global manifest , tho, then -- not.
15:40 asciilifeform if folx willing to put up with having to regrind patch 3+ times -- as the folx who helped to fix e.g. asciilifeform's logger were -- then can do just about anyffin w/ v as-is. even 'whole universe' tree.
15:42 * asciilifeform admires the pain tolerance of the folx who used, use, v. when i created it, half-expected that it'd collect dust, that folx would chicken out.
15:43 * asciilifeform brb,tea
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
17:18 asciilifeform unrelatedly: folx interested in smmism (smm was how boobytraps were often implemented prior to proper fritzchip) will find that it is detailed in amd opteron datashit; and that you can singlestep smm handler w/ 'sage' probe on irons where there is connector for same.
17:18 snsabot (trilema) 2019-12-06 dorion_road: In my brush up of, now wtf again is SMM ? this morning, I referred to an old article by robert. r. collins on the topic. He's new to me, but CV looks impressive, anyone here come across him ?
17:19 asciilifeform arguably not so interesting given as 'coreboot' traditionally has simply 'ret' in its smm handler; and afaik on all opterons where can connect 'sage', can emplace 'coreboot' in place of heathen bios.
17:23 asciilifeform smm was the orig. 'ring -1' on x86, introduced by intel in 486. worx like ordinary nonmaskable interrupt, but registers saved to dedicated on-chip sram, rather than to where stack points.
17:25 asciilifeform 1990s lappies, e.g. 'toshiba libretto', that had bios-powered 'suspend to disk', usually implemented via smm.
17:27 asciilifeform whole point was to ~not~ interact with os (would often have e.g. battery handler in there, which had to run even if winblowz has crashed etc)
17:40 * asciilifeform vaguely suspects that smmism was the 1st Officially nsa-ordered annex to pc arch. was ideal for undetectable boobytrap , i.e. entirely undetectable and unmodifiable from os, provided victim did not have a hardware debug probe (for intel boxes, was 100k$+ item that plugged under cpu, cable as thick as man's arm )
17:45 asciilifeform smm handler lived in ram segment that , once 'lock bit' in bios was set, could be neither read nor written, incl. from ring0 .
17:46 asciilifeform in the 'transistor-impoverished' era before they could put dedicated spy core in cpu proper -- was 'state of art' re snoopware.
17:48 * asciilifeform at one time, decade+ ago, tried to implement an 'above os' debugger thing as a smm extension. but broke teeth, q of 'how to trigger' proved gnarly, there's no 'fire smm' button handily provided on any known mobo, the trigger is usually wired to southbridge directly
17:49 asciilifeform 2 basic ways to make smm extension on heathen bioses -- 1) patch the bios and reflash 2) 'option rom's on pci cards. raid controllers at one time used the 2nd variant.
~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
19:01 feedbot << Qntra -- Oracle Sues US Department Of Labor Over Existence Of "Administrative Courts"
~ 3 hours 23 minutes ~
22:25 shinohai ^Srry for join/partage, working on "translate" module and bot refused to rehash.
22:25 shinohai ./translate ru en С Днем рожденья!
22:25 btcinfobot Happy Birthday!
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